Salvage Project w/pix

[txcharvel]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

Looks great, keep the pics coming.

BTW, I was just thinking...will you have enough room to adjust the trem claw in order to float the bridge correctly? You said you trimmed off the springs about 1cm, will that be enough to do the proper adjustment?

Just a thought, that would suck if you found out you needed more room after you painted it.

[mm2002]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

[ QUOTE ]
Looks great, keep the pics coming.

BTW, I was just thinking...will you have enough room to adjust the trem claw in order to float the bridge correctly? You said you trimmed off the springs about 1cm, will that be enough to do the proper adjustment?

Just a thought, that would suck if you found out you needed more room after you painted it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's actually a very damned good point. The time to fix that one little area is before the final prime-n-paint. Check it twice, fix it once.

[dg]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

That is a great point! The shorter distance means less range of adjustment, & less room for error. I'm going to put it back together & string it up to check the neck pocket out again, too. I only had 2 springs clipped to size the first go round. I'll check it with 3 this time, and see how it works dropped a half-step as well. If I'm not completely happy with it, I'm getting the claw the standard distance from the block either by recessing it or routing if I have to. Still thinking about the control layout, too. Instead of the push/pull pot, I could just move the toggle to the tone pot position, and either go with no tone control or concentric vol/tone. Lots of options, but I'm dead set on getting that toggle off of the lower horn one way or another. Thanks again for the input, guys! [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[dg]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

Finally got some free time to get back to this. Double-checked the trem with 3 shortened springs, & everything's fine with plenty of adjustment range. Decided to go with 1 hum. Filled the neck pickup route & switch cavity (wood to about 1/8" shy of the surface, finished with Bondo), filled the holes for the jack & vol. pot (new vol. pot will go to tone pot position), and drilled for new jack (angled downward & recessed into side of lower wing).




In the control cavity, you can see the 2 strips of wood glued in to back up the Bondo filling the holes for the old volume pot & jack.





The darker pink material is Bondo glazing & spot putty, which I used to fill in imperfections & get everything as dead smooth as possible. I'm not really sure that it was necessary, but since I haven't worked with catalyzed primer before, I don't want to rely on it completely to hide imperfections until I get a feel for it. You can see by the amount of putty that I did a pretty poor job with the Bondo in the pickup cavity. I had just started filling when a major family crisis popped up & I had to work fast & run. The lesson? Turn off the damn cell phone when working with catalyzed materials. Not pretty, but it came out smooth with the putty.
So, next comes 1 more round of sanding, then primer. I picked up an HVLP gravity-feed spray gun & for the color coat, I'm thinking about going with Auto-Air Colors Pearlized Lime Green. As always, I'd appreciate any tips or comments!

[Twisteramps]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

If you don't put a veneer on the face of the guitar, you're going to end up with an outline of the neck pickup cavity eventually. Ditto for the control holes that were filled too.

Pete

[mm2002]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

Yup, Pete's right (to an extent). Especially since you didn't taper the holes far enough and used that cheezy lacquer based glazing putty. That thing is going to look like crap with a finish on it. Not trying to be a ass bro, just the facts. Now as far as putting a veneer on it....hmmmm....I have to disagree with that. You don't HAVE to use a veneer, but it is a good way to mask poor preparation and use of improper materials.

[Twisteramps]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

Ok, I'll bite - what can you do to fill a hole in a guitar where it will never show without a veneer? I'll pass the info onto the person who does finishes for me - she's done wood related finishing for well over a decade professionally, I'd love to teach her something for once.

Pete

[dg]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

The edges of the cavities were all beveled at a pretty shallow angle, close to 1/8" wide. I used a large countersink bit to do the edges of the holes for the pots, & I'd say those bevels are about 3/32". They seem to have feathered in pretty well. I can't get the edge of a razor blade to catch on any of the edges at this point, but I may learn that I still need a more extreme bevel. It's a learning experience. Mark, I knew I should have asked you about that damned putty, & I'm glad you let me know about it right away. I'm in no hurry at all here, so I'm going to remove the glazing putty & go back with Bondo & take my time. Not a problem. Heck, I'll redo the pickup fill from the wood up. Matter of fact, none of this is irreversible, so I can redo the switch & pot holes too, if need be. Mark, can you give me some guidance on how extreme of a bevel to go with? Another question I should have asked first, I guess.

Pete, I appreciate what you're saying. The majority of the guys at the reranch board say it's veneer or nothing, but there are a few Bondo converts over there & Mark got some pretty amazing results on his last project with it, so I decided to give it a go. This guitar was pretty much worthless, and I'm treating it as a learning experience to try out a few things. I wouldn't go this route with any valuable guitar, trust me. Hell, anything valuable is going straight to a pro even if I ever get any good at this stuff.

[mm2002]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

The trick is to taper the edges of the cavities at least 1/2" to 3/4", then after it's sanded level apply a thin coat of catalyzed polyester glaze over the whole top. After its hardened over night, apply a coat of a good 2K urethane primer. What you're doing is basically substituting the polyester for the wood veneer. I've had very good results with it so far.

[dg]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

Thanks! Got the rest of the day off & something to do with it. Definitely redoing the pickup fill & the small hole fills with much wider taper at the edges. May get time to hit the paint supply place tomorrow & I'll be sure to get the polyester glaze. I appreciate all the tips.

[jackson1]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

Still watching this, dg. Good to see some progress.

I'd like some more info on that catalyzed polyester glaze if possible. Is it sprayable paint? What is it normally used for? Who makes it? Thanks!

[Twisteramps]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

Well, I'm still right - a veneer is a veneer, whether it's wood or chemical [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Heheh! Sounds good, I'll have to try that next time I have holes to fill on a refin. Thanks for the info!

Pete

[ QUOTE ]
The trick is to taper the edges of the cavities at least 1/2" to 3/4", then after it's sanded level apply a thin coat of catalyzed polyester glaze over the whole top. After its hardened over night, apply a coat of a good 2K urethane primer. What you're doing is basically substituting the polyester for the wood veneer. I've had very good results with it so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

[sully]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

mark, who makes the catalyzed polyester glaze? what's it called, and where can i get it?

i've also been workin with a bit of bondo over the weekend, and my god, it not only stinks, but it's a little different from what i had used before.

what i was using at a previous shop was a 2 part filler that was a in a accordion like squeeze bottle, light blue, and liquid. add a bit of cream hardener, and you were good to go. does this sound familiar?

thanks,

sully

[dg]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

Evercoat makes a few different catalyzed polyester glazes. I can't post a direct link, but from this page go to Products -> Automotive -> Putties & Finishing Glazes. They've got a basic glazing putty, & two others (Metal Glaze & Glaze Coat) that look to be more thin-bodied & easy to spread. No doubt there are quite a few other choices out there. I'm going with what's available at my auto paint supplier, but if Mark has a specific one to recommend, I'd like to know. I'm going shopping tomorrow,& wouldn't mind recommendations for the primer & clear to get as well. They carry most of the DuPont Nason Products, iirc.
As for today's progress, I removed all of the lacquer-based glazing putty, went way wide with the bevels, & refilled with Bondo. For the pickup cavity, I ground out the old Bondo down to the wood plug with a deburring tool, re-tapered the edges to about 1/2" wide, then refilled. Almost all of the sanding is done, but there's a bit more to do. I feel much better about things at this point, believe me.

[mm2002]

Re: Salvage Project w/pix

The polyester glaze made by Evercoat is the best stuff to use for the final glaze. Don't confuse it with the "bondo" though. Yes (Sully), the actual bondo is some stinky stuff to use but it has more fiberglass in it than the "squeeze bottle" stuff you referred to, which is nothing but a glazing putty in a cool dispenser intended for high volume shop work. The bondo should be used for any fills more than 1/8" deep (especially pup cavities) because it is a high solids putty and has more structural strength. The glazing putties are a lot smoother and easier to work but they will eventually crack if you put them on too thick.
If you need an area to have a lot of strength (such as drilling for bridge posts, etc.) use a product called "Dynahair". This **** hardens like a rock and is much stronger than any wood used in guitars. The advantage is that it actually contains stranded fiberglass instead of the glass powder used in bondo and glazing putties. I hope this helps a little but I'll warn you guys, I use this stuff every day but I suck at explaining it! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Pete, it's not the same as veneer bro. Compared to my method, working with veneer is a b!tch! Try filling cavities, then recapping a top on a neck-through with veneer......I can do it with polyester in about 1/4 the time it'll take you, and mine will look just as good.