Don't touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

[zeegler]

Why is it that so many people who don't have a clue what they're doing, feel the need to mess with truss rods? I regularly do set-ups for people, and it's starting to seem like everyone who drops their guitar off says the same thing: "Can you get the action any better? I adjusted the truss rod, but the action still sucks." And then invariably, I find the truss rod is WAY too tight, and the neck has a backbow.

People, if you aren't sure, don't touch the truss rod. Action can usually be improved by saddle adjustments. If the truss rod needs adjusting, it should be done in very small increments by someone who knows what they are doing. Don't expect a neck to be perfectly straight either. The fact is, you normally want a very small amount of forward bow in a neck, definitely not back bow. [img]/images/graemlins/nono.gif[/img]

[DonP]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

I want to mess with mine (new DK2), but I know what I'm doing (I've read Dan's books over and over enough so that I can recite them). I will admit before reading his book, I didn't understand truss rods, and so, I didn't mess with them.

The relief when fretting between 1 and 24 measured at the 7th fret is a little too much. I want under .010 relief, and it's probably like .015 (Factory setup). Dan's book says go for .004, but I don't need that much.

I think the problem with people is that they don't understand the nut height and bridge height are what control most of the action. They are trying to adjust height with the truss rod - big NO NO!

[MikeE]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

Tell us how you really feel [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Just think, if people didn't mess up their guitars you may not have as much business [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img]. I hear you though; if I dealt with it on a regular basis I would be fired up too.

[shreddermon]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

It's like that Bugs Bunny cartoon, with the big red button that says "Do not touch!" on it. Because it's verboten, it's all the more tempting. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[necrotechno]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

Carvin's setup flyer that comes with new guitars says adjust the truss rod first, before messing with the saddles or bridge height (or it did on the last new Carvin I bought many years ago, anyway). Doug Marks said the same thing in his Metal Method lesson series. Neck bow has a lot to do with the overall action. It's just a matter of identifying whether or not that's what's causing your particular problem.

I learned about how to work a truss rod (among other things) from buying a $15 guitar that I tore down to basically splinters and wires when I was a kid. You can learn a lot about something by breaking it.

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

Nut height and saddle/bridge height are the main determining factors in action and string height above the frets/fretboard. Adjusting the truss rod is to primarily correct forward bow and back bow, but action IS secondarily affected as well. I cannot deny that. Even though the truss rod's sole purpose is to correct neck bow, it does have an effect on action.

The truss rod is NOT for adjusting action as the PRIMARY method!

[Overlord]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

The problem is that most people want to improve their guitar at all costs, without stopping to determine what actually needs to be changed. I adjusted the truss rod on my Destroyer last night. My electrics seem to require adjustment twice a year. I had tons of relief at the 8th fret. I tightened it just over a quarter turn and it is sitting at .010 again. I will check it in a day or so to be sure it didn't move some more. I imagine sometime this fall I will have problems with all the notes fretting out or buzzing in the middle of the fretboard. At that time I will have to loosen the truss rod a bit over a quarter turn. This happens about this time every year, I don't imagine the cycle will change anytime soon. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[IommiChild]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

I usually check my truss rod with a straight edge and whatnot about 2 or three times a year...or when I do drastic tuning changes. Mostly though - if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[Soap]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

[ QUOTE ]
The truss rod is NOT for adjusting action as the PRIMARY method!

[/ QUOTE ]
So very true.

The problem, most are mislead/misinformed.
Also, unfortunately, the individual thinks after doing some reading it grants him or her the okay to fiddle with the neck. One really should get some quality traing(do it on a daily basis with someone to look over their shoulder to correct any problems)for awhile before trying it out on their own guitar.
Truss rod adjustment? In all honestly, should be left to those that know what their doing.

[noodlesatf]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

Funny thing, I do all my own setups because I generally don't trust the guys at the shops around here. The truss rod was the favorite go to for techs at places like Mars and Guitar Center (back when I didn't know what I was doing), and they bow those puppies like a country guitar. Didn't you see the points and fins? This ain't a Tele, and I ain't twangin'!

Still, if you don't know what you're doingm don't touch it. I have a Mexi Strat that is beat to shit because I used it to learn everything on. Truss rod adjustments felt like an arcane secret I unlocked with research and feeler gauges, but now every single one of my guitars plays and sounds exactly the way I want them to.

[DonP]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

What size nut is on a DK2 Truss Rod? I know it's smaller than 5/16ths. I didn't get a tool and don't feel like buying an assortment.

Thanks,

Don

P.S. where is the best place to buy one?

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

Why does Carvin say that?

Because... Most higher end guitars come reasonably well setup from the factory and the most likely thing that will happen in transit or as things settle and environments change, is that the neck will change its bow.

Nuts don't change heights, and saddles don't adjust themselves in shipping.

As for a guitar walking in the door with a questionable setup... Rule of thumb... If you can't look at a guitar and determine roughly where the trouble is for the most part. Call someone that can...

[Twisteramps]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

Reason why I adjust the truss rod first is because it's the best way to do it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Seriously... you set your truss rod before you adjust the string height at the bridge. Because if you have too much bow in the neck and you lower the bridge for your preferred action, putting the truss rod back where it should be will make the strings closer to the neck. Depending on how low your action is, this could cause buzzing - then you'd have to turn around and reset the bridge height again.

I prefer about .009 or so (high e string thickness) between the 7th to 9th or so fret TOP and the low E string if it's held down at the first fret and the last fret. Too much backbow and you start getting buzzing strings at the first few frets. Too much bow and the neck feels weird. I hate a neck with too much bow, the middle of the neck (9th fret or so) feels weird to me. I keep my necks as straight as possible, but you do need a slight curvature to the necks. As always, if you don't know what you're doing, then don't be doing.

Pete

[Blazphemer]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

on a floyd equipped guitar, would you have to loosen the strings before adjusting the rod?

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Don\'t touch that damn truss rod!!! RANT

No... Just do it like any other bridge style. If you loosened the neck, it would make it where you'd have no idea where you are at in the adjustment.

And like any other type of bridge, you will have to retune it after the adjustment and recheck the neck adjustment again till it is right.

You also have to give the adjustement time to "set in" as the necks bow will change slightly for some time after the initial adjustment.