Vintage trem users, try this...

[khabibissell]

I've been meaning to post this for a while but just got around to it. Check it out!

I think that I've discovered another trick to keep vintage (non-locking) trems in tune. When you are stringing up, look closely at the wraps above the ball, especially on the non-wound strings. Alot of times, you'll see that the wind is not tight against the string. If not, take a pair of needle nose pliers and bend it tight against the string. Next, while you are stringing the guitar, apply a drop of 3 and 1 oil down near the ball end on every string where the string breaks over the bridge plate, right behind the saddle (this is usually where the winds above the ball are). I had some tuning issues with my PRS and these two "tricks" totally solved it. I can beat the hell out of my bar (think VAI abuse) and the guitar does NOT go out of tune at all. Those of you with non locking trems, give this a try and let me know if it helps.

[AlexL]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

You can also apply solder to the wraps to ensure they don't slip.


- E.

[jgcable]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

1st of all.... a PRS trem can hardly be considered a vintage trem. It is a super high quality non locking trem but it certainly isn't vintage. I agree, to a certain extent and set up perfectly, a PRS trem stays in tune pretty good. Full out dive bombs and severe whammy action usually will knock any non-locking trem out of tune.

[khabibissell]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

Maybe not, but it works on the same pricipal right? A plate hinges on six beveled screws tensioned by springs underneath. Yes I'm sure the graphite nut and locking tuners help but proper winding and a well cut nut negate these aids. Mine does stay in tune after whammy dips where I'll press the bar down to the body... Pull ups too... Wharble manuevers? Yep. My guitar is not special, and I hardly profess to be an Ace setup guy. I'm sure if I were to use a strobe tuner after these antics to check the tuning, the guitar might be out slightly, but it is not noticeable, even without distortion and playing chords.

This is why I don't post any helpful things that I run across. There's always a know it all who will dispute it.

Also, it not that the wraps are sliding, but if you look closely at your unwound strings, you may see the end of the string after the wrap sticking out. I think when the bar is pushed down this extra bit of string catches on the plate somewhere.

[sully]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

thanks for the tips, scuba steve! i love v trems, but i don't use the bar, and they're screwed down flush with the body. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] any kinda tuning stabilizing post is welcome and should be treated accordingly.

[jgcable]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe not, but it works on the same pricipal right? A plate hinges on six beveled screws tensioned by springs underneath. Yes I'm sure the graphite nut and locking tuners help but proper winding and a well cut nut negate these aids. Mine does stay in tune after whammy dips where I'll press the bar down to the body... Pull ups too... Wharble manuevers? Yep. My guitar is not special, and I hardly profess to be an Ace setup guy. I'm sure if I were to use a strobe tuner after these antics to check the tuning, the guitar might be out slightly, but it is not noticeable, even without distortion and playing chords.

This is why I don't post any helpful things that I run across. There's always a know it all who will dispute it.

Also, it not that the wraps are sliding, but if you look closely at your unwound strings, you may see the end of the string after the wrap sticking out. I think when the bar is pushed down this extra bit of string catches on the plate somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep,, in this case I am a know it all. After shredding for close to 28 years and being a 100% user of the infamous whammy bar, I can say with 100% accuracy that the sole reason the locking and double locking trem were invented were because the vintage trem is not designed to be used as a whammy bar. It is to be used as a tremelo.
Here is a question.... Would you consider a 6 screw Fender trem vintage? Of course you would. Now.. ask players if they can do Steve Vai whammy tricks with a 6 screw vintage trem and not knock their guitars completely out of tune.
The answer you will get from 99.9% of them is hell no. Even a properly set up 6 screw trem with graphite saddles, a hipshot tremsetter and locking sperzels with a LSR roller nut won't stay in tune if you go crazy on the whammy bar. After a nice whammy bar wanking you will wind up with a combination of flat and sharp strings.
There are a few valad points here though.. The PRS trem is very high quality and is about as stable as a good Wilkinson trem. Set up properly you can use them for mild to fairly heavy tremelo. I appreciate your post. I just get frustrated when I read a post about the guy who has a vintage 6 screw trem and can pull off EVH whammy tricks while staying in tune. In my experience.. it can't be done.

[Newc]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

I dunno if this guy had a 6 screw or 2-point, but I saw the head up close, and it's a regular nut and tuners.

http://autumn-frost.com/jcf/NAMM04/V...Demarco-sm.wmv

[sully]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

lighten up. he's reporting from his personal use, and was cool enough to share a tip. not everything has to be put under a microscope; he tried somethin, and for his bar usage, it works. i understand that a prs trem is different from a fender style, but you don't need to get all up in his ass about it.

[Budman68]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

[ QUOTE ]
This is why I don't post any helpful things that I run across. There's always a know it all who will dispute it.



[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="aqua">you hit it right on the head......I hate to sound like a whiny bastid but that's exactly why I also have backed off on giving advice, it's never freakin good enough anyway.......what works for you may not work for someone else because they may not have had enough experience or "finesse" to do the "mod" correctly so right away it's a bad idea....... </font>

[txcharvel]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

From a mechanical standpoint, a PRS trem is a vintage style trem...it just looks different [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Way back when, around '90 or '91, there was a local band that we use to play with quite a bit and their guitar player had a PRS. He use to lay on the bar pretty hard and never had any problems with tuning.

I keep all my vintage trems screwed all the way against the body, I use five springs and tighten the claw as much as I can...and then I throw away the bar for good measure [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

I've got one guitar with a vintage trem - a 1980's Floyd Rose double locking trem [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img]

[toejam]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

[ QUOTE ]
From a mechanical standpoint, a PRS trem is a vintage style trem...it just looks different [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]
From what I remember reading somewhere, it's a cross between a vintage trem and a modern two-point Fender trem. I could swear I read something about the PRS trem also having two fulcrum points hidden underneath, if I recall correctly.

[toejam]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

[ QUOTE ]
the vintage trem is not designed to be used as a whammy bar. It is to be used as a tremelo.


[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, tremolo is really an incorrect term. It should be vibrato. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Tremolo means a change in volume. Vibrato is a change in pitch, which is what you're doing with the bar. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[khabibissell]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

I don't want to split hairs about this, but I offered this tip hoping someone would try it out, especially guys that have strat heads or something similar with a straight srting pull to see if it works for them... I want to buy another strat. I'm totally infatuated with nonlocking trems that stay in tune and am always looking for ways to make them do just that. I prefer the feel of them to any other system, but them tuning issues make me want to throw the guitar out the window!

That's funny though because there are a few guys I've heard of that have used Fender style systems with great success. Let's see there's this Eddie guy, and another guy named Randy something or other, yet another named Ingvay or Wingwee... Hmmm and also a guy from Texas named Steve something... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[jgcable]

Re: Vintage trem users, try this...

I appreciate your post. Really.. This is a forum for discussion and thats what I am doing. Its not like I called you names or insulted you. I am just adding my opinion to your post which happens to be interesting considering I play a 1991 PRS CE24 with a 1pc trem on it.
Personally, I have never had any luck with staying in tune with anything that wasn't double locking or at least single locking. Regarding the players above that you mentioned.. this is what I know:

Eddie used a vintage trem in the studio for VH1. I am sure as soon as he was done wanking away he gave it to the tech to retune it. Randy was constantly out of tune live after a heavy whammy bar solo. I have tons of live Randy material showing him way out of tune after a rippin solo. I went to a Yngwie clinic and he stated on the record that his guitars went flat or sharp after a dive bomb but he would compensate for the flat notes by increasing finger pressure on the scalloped neck. He did also mention that the Fender 2 post modern trem was much more stable then the 6 screw vintage model. I never saw or heard Stevie Ray Vaughan doing divebombs, pull ups and other whammy tricks (and I am a big fan of his) so you got me on that one for sure.
Anyway, I apologize if I came off like a dick. It wasn't intentional. [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]