Buzz with little relief/high action.

[jgcable]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

It just goes to show you what a proper set up can do. 1 little 1/4 turn of the truss rod can make all the difference.

[pott]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

Last night's adjustement did a lot to help but I still haven't lowered the action and it still buzzes towards the high frets. But now unless I slam on the strings during open chords it doens't buzz in an annoying way anymore. The business card can't slide under yet but it's ALMOST there so I'll probably do an 1/8th of a turn tonight or tomorrow if it hasn't gone better and leave it there.
The action is still 2.5 mm...
It's bothering me. I set up the model 4 myself, there is less relief than on the 1a, the action is 1mm high and there is no buzz at all. I guess a nice fret work would help on the Strat.

[jgcable]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

If the neck, nut, neck angle and bridge are set up correctly the next thing that would cause buzzing is improper fret dressing. They may need a leveling or maybe one of your frets popped up a little. The only other thing it could be is a warped or twisted neck. If you still can't get it correct I would suggest you bring it to a guitar tech.

[pott]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

I did, and he said that the frets looked ok, though he told me to come back tomorrow which I may do. Everything else you mentioned is properly set up.
Oh also, I set up the bridge for a 15" radius, by lack of knowledge on how vintage trem + Charvel's compound radius neck should be combined. Does anyone know what radius there sould be on the bridge?

[pott]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

Ok... I did a little check: buzzes everywhere except when I fret the 1st and 2nd frets on each strings. So most open chords will have some buzzing in them, and pretty much everything else. The action at the 12th fret is 2.5mm on the E string and about 2.25 on the high e string. The bridge has a radius of 15" right now, I didn't know what radius to use. The relief is just under the thickness of a business card and I have nothing else to judge/measure more properly with but a ruler: It's just about 1mm it seems (the middle of the string falls right to the 1mm mark).

The guitar is unplayable unfortunately. Ever since I set up the model 4 I'm used a 1mm action without any buzz no matter the tuning and fretting, and this model 1a is the total opposite.

[pebber]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

1st)buzzing is always caused by the fact that the vibrating string can't develop his eliptical pattern between the fretted position and the bridge, plain and simple because of frets further towards the bridge are "blockin" the free vibration between the fretted position and the bridge-)

2nd)first you always evaluate the neck with a long straightedge, from both sides (treble and bass) -ok, professional & experienced guys can sight it maybe otherwise, but we don't!- by making sure your neck is straight, with some small relief and a fallaway towards the body, so there should only be relief in the center of the neck on the first frets, but should become flat from the 7th fret and further-)

Taken this in consideration, your case (and I imagine the bridge to be seated normally of course) indicates you certainly have a rise in tongue or even a backbowed neck, so loosen' the nut by turning it counterclockwise. Make sure your neck is straight, with some small relief and a fallaway towards the body, so there should only be relief in the center of the neck on the first frets, but should become flat from the 7th fret and further.

Concern yourself with the action after your neck is properly set up, then just lower the bridge to a point you can get away without buzz. Make sure your bridge follows the radius of your neck (middle saddles are higher then treble/bass saddles).

And no offense, but I think you should consider lookin' in a good book to get some basic understanding first, because this ain't exact science and I don't know a lot of people who are actually measuring with an accuracy of 0,1 mm, because frankly, you can't in a home situation because the fault tolerance is way higher and to me it doesn't make sense.. a long straightedge is the tool you need to see I'm right [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Twisteramps]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

If the fretwork isn't spot on, it doesn't matter how the neck is adjusted - you're not playing on the neck, you're playing with the frets that are on TOP of the neck. Look down the neck from the headstock towards the body, and see how the neck looks. It should be a gradual curve. If it looks like a roller coaster (ups and downs) or one side has more or less curve than the other, you could have a bad neck or need a grind and polish. Take it to a guitar shop, a good luthier should be able to look at it and give you a diagnosis in about 10 seconds. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Pete

[pott]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

Well that's the problem... The action is high. VERY high, and yeah I'm aware of the all guitars behave differently thing, but a 2.5mm action with still some buzzing... eh it's weird to me. I did check the neck and the curve seems pretty normal to me, but yeah I'm not tech unfortunately. The neck curves symetrically.
And Pebber, the neck does have relief, no backbow. And I also have the Dan Erlewine's books which I bought just for these situations, but stuff like fret repairs, I can't really do.

The fretline is a little blurry but you can clearly see the relief.

Oh but I'm so st00pid! A 15" radius at the bridge is VERY flat... It wasn't like this when I got it but it may help if I changed it. Let me try that for now. Thanks [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Ok no changes. I went to a 12" radius. I think it's what the radius is at the highest frets so it's the logical one to apply.
I just don't know what to do now... I have no money right now for a fret level and my parents are gone, which means that I can't play this guitar until they come back. Not too bad but I had hoped to set it up properly myself. I'll probably buy a set of a lighter strings and redo a full set up. Take everything off, clean, file, put it on again... The usual thing.
Do you advise bringing the neck back to flattness and then work from there?

[Thoraby]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

Lighter strings have a larger eliptical pattern, so it'll most likely buzz even more if ye get lighter strings.

[Thoraby]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

Something noone has mentioned.... Your problem might be the angle of the neck. If the angle of the neck is too steep, the high frets will interphere with the eliptical pattern of the strings when you fret them.

Shim the NECK! Take the neck of, put a shim towards the end of the neck pocket and put the neck back on. Then adjust the truss rod until the neck is straight like an arrow!

If me theory is right, then this should fix your problem. If you like relief, you can add some afterwards.

[pott]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

The end of the neck pocket towards the body...? Because this would cause the neck to tilt towards the nut, making it harder for the strings to have room right? But I shimmed it at the beginning of it (the neck side) then the angle would be more like this \- and I see how it'd help. And yeah I know about the lighter gauge but those .105s are slightly too thick for me [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Twisteramps]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

Take it to a tech... the more you try to blindly fix it, the worse you could be making it. Just take it in and see if someone can give you an estimate on repair.

pete

[pebber]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

[ QUOTE ]
Take it to a tech... the more you try to blindly fix it, the worse you could be making it. Just take it in and see if someone can give you an estimate on repair.

pete

[/ QUOTE ]

my thoughts exactly.. otherwise we risk develloping it into the largest tech thread permanently locked at pos 1 [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[pott]

Re: Buzz with little relief/high action.

That's why I'm asking more things now. The relief seems to be of the 'standard' level, so I don't want to touch it that much anymore. Maybe flatten the neck but I don't think it'd change anything. I'll bring it to a tech as soon as I have money.