Recording question??

[LesPaulCustom]

[img]graemlins/help.gif[/img] Hey guys.....I need help here

I am getting a POD in the mail soon....so I will have my "tone palate" to choose from for direct recording....

Now....what is a good model drum machine?
[img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

I looked on Evil Bay, but there is a lot to choose from, and I am "not in the know".

Any help you can give would be appreciated.

Thanks
LPC

[~K~]

Re: Recording question??

Shawn hit the nail on the head.. thats what I have albiet it's now called smart loops.. if your doing pc recording these a great cause you can edit beat for beat, easliy cut and paste or even build your own loops to suit the song... their acidized wav files from real drums so they sound great ..

[hammer84]

Re: Recording question??

Software Loops all the way!!!! Acid is good so is Reason. Maybe I'll throw in a little software surpise in the POD box.

[LesPaulCustom]

Re: Recording question??

Thanks for the responses...you guys rock!! [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

A thanks goes out to Hammer also [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

LPC

[Newc]

Re: Recording question??

I've been using an Alesis SR-16 for years with great results, but have grown slightly displeased at the Toms in it. You either get the old-school "ringing" Toms that sound kinda like rubber, or you get the Cannon-type that really are best suited for percussive effects as there's not a snare or kick to really match up with it.
The Alesis QSR rack synth has good drum sounds, and it's far easier to stack different Toms and such onto each other, but I haven't yet figured out how to get a custom drum patch to be used on MIDI channel 10 (drum channel) - it keeps defaulting back to the factory preset patch, even though I've got mine saved in the User patch, and that same User patch selected in the Mix.

Anyhoo, I'm thinking of going with an Alesis DM Pro or DM-5 and ditching the SR-16.

The Boss unit that DiabloMozart uses sounds great as well, but he records his to analog tape then dumps to the PC, so that helps the tone alot. I haven't heard one direct-to-PC for comparison.

Newc

[mm2002]

Re: Recording question??

I agree, I too have been using my sr16 for a long time and I'm beginning to think it sucks ass. The dm5 will be my next purchase. The drag-n-drop drummer is cool too but there's still no substitute for a real drum box.

[ November 17, 2003, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: mm2002 ]

[SweetPete]

Re: Recording question??

Guys,

Is it just me, or has there been no real improvement in the drum machines for years now?

[KYJoe]

Re: Recording question??

Midi drums can never replace real drums played by a real drummer. Real drums will always be superior, you can't really emulate an acoustic instrument and be completely accurate. Midi can only get close and I doubt they can get much closer.

Everyone buys the Alexis unit because you can split the drums into 4 tracks rather than 2 with most of the other drum machines. The sounds on the Alexis are a bit dated, the newer models have better sounding drums which is why I settled for the 2 track output. Separation of the individual drums help alot, but I think a better sounding set is more important.

Loops sound better but I prefer the drum machine to spending hours tweaking loops to put together a fill I could tap on my MRT3 in mere seconds. I'd rather spend more time on the guitar! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Remember, only musicians will really be able to tell the difference. The average listener is more concerned with the melody and the vocals. The Alexis is good enough for Jake E. Lee, he uses one too! If midi drums aren't good enough, then find a real drummer to play the parts.

Joe

[mm2002]

Re: Recording question??

The KY dude put it in a nutshell. [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[txcharvel]

Re: Recording question??

Anthing Alesis, older models are HR-16 and HR-16B. The newer (but still pretty old) is the SR-16.

These are easy to use and you don't have to learn a foreign language to operate them.

[DRH]

Re: Recording question??

ZOOM MRT-3.

About $100.

Pretty good sounds, easy to use and program.


DRH

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Recording question??

also keep in mind if you are recording to PC you can use an application that will do the same...ie. Drop and Drag drummer...

[KYJoe]

Re: Recording question??

I second the Zoom MRT3, I use it myself. It's easy to program and it sounds pretty authentic too.

Joe

[Jester700]

Re: Recording question??

I have an SR16, but just picked up a used Boss DR660. It also has 4 outs, and 255 sounds. They're not necessarily BETTER than the SR16, but it's good to have DIFFERENT ones. The newer 770 should be similar.

But I agree that software is the way to go; you have limitless sounds this way. Drum programming is really about feel. I do a track and it sounds like ass. My brother does a track and I ask him what mics he used on the set. But then, he's been drumming for over 20 years (and went to music school)...

[pro-fusion]

Re: Recording question??

I use a Boss DR-770, and it works for me, although there are some things I don't like about it. Soundwise, the toms are the best I've ever heard, the kicks are generally good (if not quite deep enough), and many of the snares are realistic sounding (although some have a hard time penetrating a mix). The cymbals are the weak point of the DR-770 (and I presume the 660, as well)--they are grainy sounding, and the crashes and open hi-hats cut off way too quickly. The old Roland (same company) R5 and R8 drum machines had a lot better cymbal samples, even with having a small fraction of the memory that the DR-770 does. Also, Roland/Boss has way dumbed down the programming capabilities of the DR-770 in comparison to what you could do on the R5/R8--for example, you cannot program anything other than base-4 time signatures on a DR-770, which means you can't go all Dream Theater and program 7/8 or 9/8 time sigs. The R5/R8 allowed you to go all the way into base-16 signatures, such as 9/16 or 11/16, if you wanted to get that crazy. Again, this is silly, since the 770 has way more memory capacity than those old drum machines did. But I still use the 770, since the non-cymbal sounds are preferable to the R5/R8, in my opinion.

If you want a good compromise between sound and features, go search out a used Roland R70 drum machine. It was the last 'full-featured' drum machine that Roland made (as opposed to the miniature Boss ones, like the 660 and 770), and it will do amazing programming while having improved sounds over the R5/R8. I still prefer the sounds in the 770 to those in the R70 (particularly the toms), but I'm thinking about getting an R70 myself, just for the better programming capability.

As far as software goes, that's a great option if you record on a PC (I don't), but you might want to find some kind of mini-drum pad interface you could use with it, unless you like entering beats on a piano keyboard (I don't)--for me, it's difficult to get the right feel on my beats and fills unless I'm tapping on something.

Concerning the results you get, I recommend listening closely to the beats and fills on your favorite albums and taking them apart. One temptation is always to try and get really complicated with your beats (especially the cymbals), but the reality is that most rock and metal beats are not that complicated. When dealing with 'artificial' beats, simplicity is better--focus more on the overall 'groove', or time relationship between the various drum instruments, and you'll get a lot closer to a real-sounding drum beat than trying to be Mr. Fancy-Pants. Also, inserting carefully-programmed fills in the right places is essential to getting good a good drum track. Again, spend time analyzing what your favorite drummers do in their fills--it's not always that complicated (Neil Peart and Mike Portnoy excepted).

As far as other companies' machines go, I've always preferred the sounds in the Roland products to any others I've heard, but you may think differently about that.