Intonation

[john-boro]

Hi, I am recording soon so need a bit of advice about the above. I use a jackson soloist pro, on which the floyd is fully immobilised. It is just about level. Not to brag but over the years I think I have developed a good tonal ear (or maybe its psychosomatic [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] ) but I find I can almost always hear small imperfections in the tuning of my guitar. example:
I adjust the intonation on the g string so that the octave matches the open string. However then I notice that the second fret on G sounds vey, very, slightly higher than an A, and I verified this with an electronic tuner. The problem is it's impossible for me to get it so that the intonation is perfect up and down the neck on each string. is this even possible?

I wouldn't normally worry this much about intonation, it sounds fine in a band situation, because of the small imperfections between instruments i guess, but when im recording with the band I want to make it worth it.
any help much appreciated
john

[toejam]

Re: Intonation

No guitar will ever be perfectly in tune with itself... it's just the nature of the beast. You'd need to get a new nut like the Earvana or Buzz Feiten tempered system to help with your problem to be in better tune.

[john-boro]

Re: Intonation

right, thanks a lot. So would you suggest that for a recording this guitar would be fine? In open band play there is absolutely no problem, it's only when I concentrate on the intonation and seem to get a bit paranoid I can find problems [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] . infact, I think it would maybe be helpful if I didnt have my GFX4's tuner constantly looking at me, because I wonder how much of the tuning problems are just me worrying too much about it and noticing things that might not be there.
what to earvana's do by the way?
cheers [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[toejam]

Re: Intonation

You should be fine for recording. Here's info on the Earvana system. http://www.earvana.com/

They also had a locking nut system made not too long ago, but I looked quick and couldn't seem to find it.

[john-boro]

Re: Intonation

okay, thanks for your help [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] . Now I've just gotta train myself not to hear such tiny differences, because although lots of people wish they had 'perfect pitch' or whatever, it really gets in the way of playing creatively, with feeling.
cheers toejam
john

[john-boro]

Re: Intonation

also, if they don't make the locking one anymore, which one would fit my soloist in place of the locking nut? or is there another make

[toejam]

Re: Intonation

Hmmm, I have no idea. Maybe call or email them to find out if they still make that model. I did read something quick that you could use the regular nut with a trem, but you may be more comfortable with the locking nut. I've never used the system and am not that familiar with it, but I've heard good things about it from people at the Carvin board.

[2Loud2Old]

Re: Intonation

Okay, this is rather lame and perhaps only slighlty usefull.

But...

If there are certain songs requiring combinations on the G and B strings (Standard tuning) I find it helpfull to tune GBE relative to each other, rather than by the tuner.. I find that for most chords and voicings this works well.

Example: 5 fret G string in combination with 6 fret B string - this combination in particular seems "off" when using standard tuning, tuned with a tuner.. 4 fret G and 5 fret B as well

This happens with all my guitars and for as long as I can remember, and with correct intonation.

My solution has always been to re-tune GB tog ether while playing the mentioned fingering by ear. I then tune high E to match them.

[AlexL]

Re: Intonation

2Loud2Old, that is good advice.

You sometimes will have to alter the tuning slightly to match the song. You need to be careful about your choice of chords, as well. If you are playing mostly open chords, tune to those, and avoid barre chords. If you need to play barre chords, tune to them, and avoid open chords. I had problems with this when recording, and have had to change chord voicings and it usually seemed to revolve around the G & B strings.


- E.

[Ninja Guitar]

Re: Intonation

Here's a real tuning problem, tuning the guitar to drop-A. I've all but completely concluded that it is impossible to tune to low A on a standard scale guitar and have somewhat good intonation. So far I've only tried it with a 13- 60 string set. A 13-70 set may get more workable intonation, so I'll try that.

[img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] This intonation stuff is frustrating but kinda fun. Guitars rule!

[toejam]

Re: Intonation

Originally posted by Ninja Guitar:
Here's a real tuning problem, tuning the guitar to drop-A. I've all but completely concluded that it is impossible to tune to low A on a standard scale guitar and have somewhat good intonation. So far I've only tried it with a 13- 60 string set. A 13-70 set may get more workable intonation, so I'll try that.

[img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] This intonation stuff is frustrating but kinda fun. Guitars rule!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, the lower you go, the further back the saddles should go, but sometimes you can't go back any further. The heavier strings may help a little.

[john-boro]

Re: Intonation

cool thanks for the input. I definitely agree with the thing about G and B. Playing the first part of paranoid android by radiohead, if anyone knows that, I can never get the G and B strings to sound correct together, especially as it alternates between octaves. I tend to use mostly barre chords, and at the moment they seem to work for me.
also how much does the tuner used affect your ability to adjust intonation properly? i have a zoom gfx4, and i use the tuner on that (its one of those ones that forms an 8 shape when the strings in tune). Would a qwik tune be better or worse than this?