A word of caution and a cry for help!

[Newc]

Ok, I FINALLY found a locking nut I needed (thanks Mark!) for a decent price, and I was mounting it to a Warmoth birdseye/birdseye neck. Now, my S.O.P. for mounting anything with screws is drill a shallow pilot hole - just enough for the screw in question to get a bite - then power it in with old-fashioned elbow grease.
Unfortunately, Allparts uses a very weak screw, and about half-way in on the first screw (top mount), it tore off just above the threads.
So, I figured if I drill the other hole deeper, the second screw can do all the holding. So I drilled the second hole a bit deeper (half the length of the screw or more) and was almost at the bottom when I felt that one break off, so now I've got two broken screws stuck in a neck, and since they both had a pretty good bite on the wood, it don't appear they'll be moving easily.

Anybody know how to handle this? The screws are like 1/8" or less in diameter, so tapping them out might not work (if I can find a small enough tap), and I doubt I can find a cutter narrow enough to cut a slot in the top of the screw to unscrew it - even then, given the weakassness of the screw, it'd prolly tear up even more.

Anyone? Should I try to cut a larger hole around the screw till I can grab it with a pair of needle-nose? If I can get them out that way, I can at least go all the way through and use the rear-mount screws since they're thicker anyway, and the holes are already lined up.

Newc

[axeman81]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

Oops, that's a bummer dude.

Here's what works for me whenever there's a screw stuck: take your drill and drill the screw out, effectively destroying it. then you should be able to pluck(?) out the remaining pieces of it.

You'd have to use a drill that's the same diameter as the screw of course, or preferrably start with one that's slightly smaller!

Hope this helps,


- Rune.

[Newc]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

I did try drilling through it with the same bit I used to do the pilot hole, but that didn't work (kept slipping off the screw into the surrounding wood), then I did find a teeny tiny bit maybe 1/32" or less - like a dog's whisker - but that didn't work either (course I'm trying not to dick the neck, so I didn't try TOO hard [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] )

Anybody know where I can find a doorknob-hole-cutting bit that's about 1/8"? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Newc

[zeegler]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

Shit Newc that really sucks the big one. I've had the same thing happen, but never in a neck. Here's something you might want to try:

Take a 1/8" drill bit, preferably a tungsten carbide bit which you can pick up at a marine supply store) cut it in half so it's short enough that when you put it in your drill press, you have about 1/4" to 3/8" showing. It might be a bit difficult to seat properly, because you no longer have the smooth cylindrical piece at the end, but it can be done. Now you need to clamp your neck as tight as you can to the drill press table. If it moves, this won't work. Now you should be able to drill out the screws really, really slowly. The shortened bit will prevent it from deflecting as long as you take it nice and slow. Let me know how you make out.

[Newc]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

No drill press available [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
I have a handheld drill.

Newc

[sully]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

yep, you can carefully drill the screw until it caves in on itself (works great, i've done it a few times), or you can get a screw extractor bit, which i've never had any luck with. but i recently saw a commercial for craftsman; i guess they just came out with a bit that will work pretty well for that kind of thing (screw extracting) it's sold in a 3pc set for about $20.

sully

[Newc]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

Thanks. I tried the small bit (dog whisker) but it keeps slipping. I could take it to work tonight as they have the whole set of broken-screw-removing bits and taps, but something about non-musical machinists working on wood scares me [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I'm trying now to carefully cut recesses around the screws in the vain hope I can get a better grip with some pliers. I could just reverse them by putting a small flathead screwdriver against one of the barbs on the top and tapping it counterclockwise, but since the screws are actually biting the wood and not seated in pilot holes (other than around the very top of the hole - maybe a baby's-hair deep) I doubt that'd work. I'd probably chip away the screw that way instead of spinning it.

Anybody got a template I can download and print off as a sticker for the rear-mount holes? I might be able to go in through the back and nail them that way (yeah, right).
Or I could just Krazy Glue the nut on [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Newc

[jgcable]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

Craftsman does make a screw removal bit. It works great. Go get one and end your problems. You can also buy some pin drills. Then, drill holes all around the broken screw. You should be able to remove the broken screw. Then drill out the hole large enough to fit a maple dowel in. Glue the dowel in and then redrill it and use stronger screws or drill larger holes.

[mm2002]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

The problem is with any hardwood (maple) and small screws, you have to drill a pilot hole the same size as the screw shank and the same depth as the length of the screw. This way all the screw has to do is cut threads, not make the hole. If you try to let the screw make the hole it will break (or you'll strip out the head)! The depth is important too, hold the screw alongside the drill bit and wrap a small piece of masking tape around the bit at the length of the screw. Then drill down to the tape line and you know it's the proper depth. As for removing the broken screws, just drill another hole a little larger than the screw alongside it as a relief, then pick it out, dowel the hole and start over.

[sully]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

i'd try to get the screws out without drilling more holes, it's a lot less intrusive. i'd drill other holes as a last resort, but that's just me.

one thing you can do to help screws bite the holes more is to drop a bit of super glue in the hole and try and work it around the walls of the hole. you can use a wooden match with glue on it, and just dip it into the hole. obviously you have to work fast, but it's a nice little thing that i picked up.

sully

[Newc]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

This just keeps getting better:

I tried my hand at installing the rear-mount screws, which, logically, would meet the tip of the broken screws and hopefully back them out the top. I used the small bit again, and missed the first time (oops) but nailed it head-on the second time. But, since the bit is thinner than the screw, it curved right over the tip and came out next to the screw (pulverizing one side of it - it came out as metal dust).
So, once I had the pinhole in the right place, I chased it with a larger bit for the rear-mount screw to go into, but again it was a tight fit. I wanted it that way so the rear-mount screw would have enough resistance to it to push against the stuck screw.
Allparts has the market on weak metal - I wound up stripping the head of the rear-mount screw, and now it's stuck in the hole as well [img]graemlins/brow.gif[/img]

Anyhoo, that's an easier fix since the screw is thick enough to either cut a slot or tap it out.

The funny part is, I've already got two nuts that can ONLY use rear-mount screws, but wanted top-mount because I was not comfy drilling holes through the back of the neck [img]graemlins/brow.gif[/img]

Ah well, c'est la vie.

Newc

[Budman68]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

Wow! Not a good day for ya bro. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] When those days start going like that, I just walk away from it till the next day. Better a day late than scrap I always say!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
If you ever need a hand bro, please let me know.

Take care,
Dave->

[shreddermon]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

That blows, Newc. Call Allparts and read 'em the riot act. Maybe they'll reimburse you for the neck. I highly doubt it, but 'ya never know.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

Bummer Newc....I just recently botched a thru the neck Floyd nut job. I was having the a problem getting a top mount nut because the screws were going a little on an angle and not grabbing any wood because of the trus rod cover route...err....so on first try of a thru the neck drill I blew it...I was so pissed I haven't touched it since [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] It looked good...nice counter sunk holes but when I went to mount it was off...I dunno how that happened...errr

Dave makes a good point on leaving it...I should have just walked away from it when I couldn't get the top mount nut to go on right....but no...I had to scew up a perfectly good neck [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] now I need to dowel it...like I'll ever get around to doing that!

Do you guys ever have one of those type days where nothing seems to go right? or other days you do everything perfect (in terms of guitar projects and such) I've been in a bad luck phase in projects...I put a new Floyd on a Firebird project...tune her up and begin to intonate it and I noticed that some ass who had the Floyd (I got it used off of eBay) put the saddles back in the wrong order...errr...off with the brifge and start over... [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: A word of caution and a cry for help!

Dowelling would be no problem, but at this rate I'd probably do better with a Speedloader [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Newc