Inlay questions

[Newc]

I've got a few ideas (as usual) and I want to run them by those who have done inlay and woodworking (HuntinDoug, Sully, Denny, etc).

First, where can I find ebony in blocks similar in width and thickness to a fretboard?

Second, what tools would I need to carve inlay patterns into said ebony pieces by hand? I mean hand-powered tools like scrapers and chisels and whatnot. I realize that's extremely time-consuming compared to an experienced hand on a motorized tool. I have the motorized tool, but not the experienced hand (yet).

Third, is it feasible to use a pen-style/sized flexible Dremel attachement with a bit that has a very small head on it to carve said ebony?


I'm theorizing that if I practice on scrap pieces by hand first, I can get a feel for grain patterns (in a general sense) and how they influence the direction a tool will and will not easily travel, then inch up to practicing with the Dremel attachment to learn how to control the direction of travel once you add a rotating tool to the equation.

My goal is to get to a point where I can safely route a fretted board, even if it's using the Dremel to route the center area and then do the trim work by hand to avoid fret damage or the expense of a refret.

Fourth, when you inlay a large design (LPC-style block, etc) on a radiused board, do you cut a radiused channel for the inlay then bend the material slightly until the glue sets, or do you cut a flat channel using the center of the board as the depth limit and then shave the top of the inlay down to match the radius?

Fifth, has anyone here with 3D experience used that new Craftsman rig that works off your PC? What I've read of it from beta testers generally indicates those with performance problems (aside from mechanical/motor malfunction) may not know much about X, Y, and Z planes to set it properly.

[Model1VH2]

There are some pretty good tutorials shown here ...

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/tutorial4.htm

I really don't have any experience with inlay work, but this is something I too would like to eventually get into doing.

From what I've read, most prefer doing inlay work before fretting.
Makes it much easier to manipulate tools and much easier when it comes to leveling out your inlays.

[Budman68]

wow! First of all, I didn't know sully and Denny did inlay work and I also didn't know Doug did his inlay work by hand (I thought it was a laser engraver?). I would love to see the hand works of all of them, there's nothing like seeing true handworked inlay.

Unfortunately Matt, I can't help you with a fretted instrument but Dino (Model1VH2) is correct in saying that it's best to do before fretwork because of the leveling stage. I guess depending on the material you'd use, you could bend it into place and use clamping cauls to glue but you're still going to have a to use a cabinet scraper or at least a hard backed razor blade for final leveling.

Using a dremel for the roughing is best and then you can use a set of micro chisels or since you work in a metal working environment, find out where they get rid of their dull files and grind down your own hand tools. Files work great for that because they're hardened. Razor blades (for utility knives) work great as well for minute hand work.

As for cutting the ebony, you're going to need a dental saw with hardened blades since ebony is so tough. If you're cutting pearl or abalone, you'll need a respirator as you CAN NOT breathe that crap into your lungs as it doesn't break down and will ruin your health.

If I may suggest a book, The Art of Inlay is a great book to get started into this and it shows you how to build a lot of jigs and tools to save money.

Good luck, my friend-

[HuntinDoug]

Ditto on what Dave said.... With a big emphasis on the respirator for MOP! The stuff can kill you...literally.

I have some hand carving experience from a few years back. Mostly on walnut gunstocks. 3D wildlife patterns & designs. Mostly fish scale grip designs. I had a GRS brand air driven rotary tool www.grstools.com . Cost was around $500 back then....But well worth the money. It's basically a dental drill with a foot pedal that controls the speed. Once I got my laser, it collected dust so I sold it. The laser still requires an artistic "eye" for design, it just knocks out the tedious work. Which is a nice time saver.

1st: Where to get ebony... The best thing is to just bite the bullet, and order a couple fingerboards from LMI www.lmii.com . You can get macassar ebony for about $12/board or so. Rosewood would be a good (and cheaper) wood to get as well. I think they sell a grade 3 rosewood board for $7.00?.

2nd: A dremmel multipro is the most common motorized inlay tool. Although it's bulky to use by hand. But, when used with a routing jig, it works well. You will need a setup like that if you want to do block LP style inlays in MOP. Most MOP comes .050" to .060" thick. When you factor in the FB radius, you have to be dead on when it comes to the pocket depth. Routing something like that by hand is a real pain. Using a chisel is even worse...

3rd: As long as you have a sharp (preferably carbide) cutter, you'll be fine. Grain pattern wont effect the cut you are making as much as the rotation of the tool and it's tendency to want to "walk" on you. Rule of thumb is the higher the RPM, the better. The GRS I had ran 320,000 rpm when it was wide open.

4th: Flat bottom to the pocket. You will not be able to bend MOP. It is very brittle. I have bent some plastics to fit into pockets that are radiused before without a problem.

5th: Scott from Hembry Guitars in WA bought one and had nothing but problems. He loved the way the software worked, but said the machine was junk. A lot of the machine is made from ABS plastic. He wasn’t even able to finish a simple carve top without replacing parts. I had plans on buying one to do carve tops & body inlays, but decided against it.

Good luck with learning inlay...It's fun to do, I really enjoy it. The book Dave suggested is a good one. I can hook you up with some scrap & offcut plastics to play with. Get yourself some rosewood or ebony, a tube of slow drying 2 part epoxy, and some dots, or star inlays and have at it.

[Newc]

Thanks guys

On the Craftsman thing, I'm wondering if maybe he was trying to cut too deep too soon and it was throwing the machine around?

Then again, I'm sure it's made in People's Home Appliance Factory #12 in China, so balsa and pine would be what it was designed for.

I do have a Dremel multi-pro, and I've routed a single-coil slot to a humbucker route before by hand (didn't have the router base for it). Aside from one nasty gash in the top, it came out decent for my first "real" attempt (second actual attempt - the first one was a "getting to know you" run on a scrap body), so I'm aware now of how it wants to walk.

But I've got the flexible pen-style attachment (long gooseneck thing) so controlling it with that should be easier. It's a 7200 RPM model, though. If I take it slow and try not to go too deep into the wood too fast I should be able to scrape the channel where I want it (rather than bulldoze it).

I was thinking carbide bit as well - the one with the little-bitty roundish head on it about the size of a ball point pen.

I also bought some MOP from Ebay a few years ago in 6x8 sheets (or 4x6?) - looks decent enough for a noob like me anyway
And thanks for the warning about the respirator - the stuff I bought didn't mention any safety hazards, but then, only those who know would actually buy it, right?


Speed of results is not an issue for me at this point - I won't throw up a sign saying "Git yer necks inlaid here", so I won't have any pressure of a deadline - and I realize I'd spend more on tools and materials doing it myself than for someone else to do the work and a refret, but this is something that I'd like to learn, at least enough to say "yeah, I've done it a couple of times but nothing major".

[delt]

I think the best tool for that kind of job is a dremel with a "router base" attachment. First i draw the pattern with a pencil, then mark it with a exacto, then use the dremel with a pointy bit to do the outside of the shape, then use a thicker (2mm?) bit to do the rest.

Never tried this on a fretboard without removing the frets, tho.... i'd expect stability/balance issues working with the dremel.

[HuntinDoug]

Newc,
PM me your address, I'll mail you some scrap & offcut pearlessence inlay material to play with. I have some extra pre-cut shapes also (flames, eyeballs, skulls, ect).

I forgot to mention. When I epoxy inlays into a board, the best thing I have found to use is a chop stick. When we go out for chinese food, I always bring home a few pair. I sharpen one end in a pencil sharpener, and leave the other end dull. It works well as a tool to push the epoxy into all the corners of the pocket, and to move the inlay piece around without glueing your fingers...just a tip.