FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

[Jim Shine]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

True, as in the real Professional model.

[slo100]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

The catalog I have lists the 2300, 2310, and 2320. I always lumped the 2300's together since they are convertible. The Flyer was the ugly one!

On all the early versions of Kahlers I have seen the rollers and cam have been Brass so I am under the impression brass came first and then the Pro series upgraded to steel and brass "standardized."

Have you ever seen a PAF steel version?

[Jim Shine]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

Yes, I have two of them. I don't know if there is any significance, but both guitars are graphics models. Here is the trem I have easy access to:

[slo100]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

What are the dates on the guitars those trems came on?

[Jim Shine]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

September 1984 and January 1985.

[mulder1966]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

- posted January 29, 2004 06:37 AMJanuary 29, 2004 06:37 AM Profile for lerxstcat Email lerxstcat Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote
quote:Originally posted by Metalcop:
Kahler = girls trem

Floyd = mans trem

It is that simple.

Anybody that thinks that a Floyd is more sensitive than a Kahler has never actually used a Floyd. A Floyd requires more brute force to use, the Kahler is a little girly wiggle stick that will NOT stay in tune. You just don't have the skill to use and maintain a Kahler so that it WILL stay in tune. Are you sure your macho Floydian speech isn't overcompensating for your latent "tendencies"? [LOL]

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[slo100]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

Sweet, now we are getting somewhere. This is turning into a Kahler research project...my apologies to the topic originator.

Hmm, I'll check mine tonight. Have you tried to correlate all your guitars in terms of brass/steel and PAF vs. P#?

It'd be interesting to see the trend.

Is Ralph reading this? This is screw counting. LOL!

Thanks for all the info Jim!

BTW - have you determined a date range when P# trems started to appear? There will inevitably be some overlap due to manufacturing lagtime and such.

[Jim Shine]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

It IS interesting and I love trying to figure this stuff out!

Yes, I have noticed some things. All steel versions seem to be by far the minority until the late 80's. I have two PAF models now, but I think I have only had one other PAF all steel (It was on a very early '85 Rhoads I had). I believe the #'s started phasing in by late '84 and early '85 and ofcourse had a transition period. Some lesser used platings like chrome and gold likely took longer to change. I have a April 1985 guitar with a factory gold Kahler 2320 PAF trem and early April '85 guitar with a black Pat # trem.

Another thing I wonder about: When did they stop chrome plating the string "claws" on the chrome models? All PAF flatmounts I have had have chrome claws and all # models I have had have black.

[Jim Shine]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

Another thing I should probably mention is that I buy atleast a dozen Kahlers a year at guitar shows. To estimate, I probably have had 80-100 'loose' kahler cams over the years. I don't remember getting PAF all steel ones, but I may have had a couple I don't remember. Who knows what years the trems I had were from. A cool Kahler I have had a few times in the past are full brass 2320's. Even the outer ring is finished brass. I would LOVE to find one of those now.

[slo100]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

I don't know about the claws, I disasseble my guitars as little as humanly possible but I'll make a note to look at that.

I took a quick tally of mine and here is how they stack up, Jim. I do have a hole in there between jun 84 & jun 85 so maybe that is why I don't have any PAF steel Kahlers!


PAF Brass - date unknown (added to prepro)
PAF Brass - apr 84
PAF Brass - may 84
PAF Brass - jun 84
P# Steel - jun 85
P# Steel - jul 85
P# Steel - jul 85
P# Steel - sep 85
P# Steel - sep 85
P# Steel - oct 85
P# Steel - nov 85
P# Steel - nov 85

My three loosies are

P# Steel
P# Steel
PAF Brass (see pic, is this what you're talking about? even the string claws are brass on this hunk o' metal)

[Jim Shine]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

Yes! That is the all brass one! Typically they are chrome plated steel saddles (not rollers) and mounting ring with a gold toned finish applied. Sometimes they are mixed with brass saddles and steel ring. Very cool one you have there! I almost bought a Washburn at the last Philly show to part out just for one of those trems. I have no idea how long they made them like that or when they did it.

I am wondering if one had to specify Professional or Standard when they ordered a Kahler on a Charvel/Jackson. Perhaps the default Kahler you received was a 2320.

Here is a chrome with gold finish 2320

[Jim Shine]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

You made me think of another screw counter detail. Check out the difference between the insides between these two old trems. Typically I see the style like your brass trem (the chrome trem in this pic). I have no idea when they changed or if it was a pro/standard difference.

[slo100]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

That is sort of how I came upon my theory that they started off with Brass and went to steel later as an upgrade for players. The steel ones bite a little more and the brass ones are perceptively darker. That's just my ear. How do you hear them?

Good stuff. I don't know how C/J determined what you got when ordering a Kahler...It may just be that if you asked for Gold you got a Standard and if you asked for Black (or chrome) you got a Pro?

Do we have any gold Kahlers with steel saddles in the house?

[Jim Shine]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

I would post a pic, but my DVD RW just shit the bed. I just sold a set of NOS gold Pro steel rollered saddles and a Pat # steel saddle 2300 gold plated. The bridge I show above has steel saddles and brass rollers.

I hear just what you hear. However, I am partial to neckthroughs and that is where I have any experience with these C/J guitars. I tend to prefer brass models with ebony boards and steel with rosewood (Student) boards. I believe that is the best mix. If I did bolt ons, maybe the brass with maple board would sound best. My "Kullick" style graphic '85 Soloist Student has a brass cam/saddle bridge and its too dark and for my tastes.

[slo100]

Re: FLOYD ROSE vs KAHLER

Shoot I am one post behind.

Did the addition of the spring for the string claws coincide with the different housing/hole for the trem arm?

Interesting.

Are both those you have PAF steel? Notice the spring anchor ("T" looking thing) is steel in one and brass on the other.

What the hell are the official names of all these parts?

I went to the USPTO and looked up the patent #4,457,201 and it was granted July 3, 1984 to a David Story (The D.S. initials we see, I imagine). That explaines the PAF vs. P# issue.

The patent content is hysterical to read the way they have to describe all these little pieces in the Kahler trem.

I'd like to know the relationship between this Storey guy and Gary Kahler.