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**etaeniura** · 02-11-2004, 11:05 PM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

Actually, you should still be able to use the original neckplate, as you will have to plug and drill new hole in the guitar and neck to accomodate the downward angle of the neck screws. I wouldn't worry too much about losing sustain, as you are only losing a very smal fraction of the actual body mass. Make sure you carefully measure the screw lengths so you don't pop up through the fingerboard as well. Also, if the body is a softer wod, you take a small chance of weakening the neck joint (don't want the neck to pop out if you pull back on the trem).

**mm2002** · 02-11-2004, 11:20 PM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

They already tried that with the Charvettes. Not a good idea, it just weakens the neck joint.

**Evol** · 02-12-2004, 12:59 AM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

Originally posted by etaeniura:
Make sure you carefully measure the screw lengths so you don't pop up through the fingerboard as well.

Wise advice...I actually did this like when I was 16 on one of the very first guitars I broke [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
Two things I learned that day :

1.Check for screw clearance if you've done any neck/neck pocket mods.

2.Never ever under any circumstances throw your guitar across the room onto the floor in a fit of rage. [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I'm not talking about a Steve Vai overly dramatic wimpy flop on the floor in Crossroads,I mean pull back like you're gonna hit a homerun and let it soar. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

**RacerX** · 02-12-2004, 01:57 AM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

Originally posted by Evol:
I mean pull back like you're gonna hit a homerun and let it soar. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

That's called a "Chuckracer"

**skarhead** · 02-12-2004, 04:27 AM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

They already tried that with the Charvettes. Not a good idea, it just weakens the neck joint.

i have to see one of those ,

etaeniura :

i thought about using a different neck plate because i wanted to leave the screws in the same holes as they were ( the neck plate would be harder to produce but is definitely possible .

Also, if the body is a softer wod, you take a small chance of weakening the neck joint - so what about alder or poplar ? or should i order a luthier made mahogany body then ?

and evol :

i haven't started this project , i'll order a neck someday and i'll maybe do this . that was just a general question

btw haven't there been ibenheds with the neck joint like that ( not sculpted like a jem on the heel ) , i think they we're also angled a little bit.

btw many bass makers ( sguitar actually too )) make a neckplate-less connection - what do you thin about that ?

also if making something without a neck plate then 6 bolts (musicman style ) could be better than four ? any opinions ?

**YetAnotherOne** · 02-12-2004, 07:08 AM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

Originally posted by skarhead:
Also, if the body is a softer wood, you take a small chance of weakening the neck joint - so what about alder or poplar ? or should i order a luthier made mahogany body then ?

Hmmm ... I've got a Hamer Vintage S (Fender only wishes they could make a Strat this good) that has a neck joint *just* like the one shown above. I've had no problems with it at all but then again I don't beat my guitars up too much and the body on this one is solid maple (solid AAAA flame maple actually). [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

My guess would be that if you don't abuse it too badly you probably won't have a problem.

Originally posted by skarhead:
btw many bass makers ( sguitar actually too )) make a neckplate-less connection - what do you think about that ?

I like the looks of this arrangement but if you're going to angle off the heel already you might be asking for trouble by counter-sinking the ferrules into the thinner heel for this design. The neck pocket would be terribly thin between the top pair of ferrules and the neck itself.

Also consider the function of the neck plate: it distributes the force of the screw heads over a broader area. That distribution spreads the stress on the wood over a larger area thereby helping to prevent problems that might arrise if relatively more force were applied to a much smaller area.

Bottom line: if I were going to angle the heel I'd use a plate; if I were going to sink in ferrules to avoid using a plate I wouldn't angle the heel.

**Black Mariah** · 02-12-2004, 08:05 AM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

Pat Lachman was supposed to be getting his own signature series a while back. The neck heel was going to be angled, so Kevin grabbed a beat to shit DX1 and took a belt sander to it. He spent the rest of the day quite literally throwing it around everywhere and nothing happened to it.

If you think it's going to weaken the neck joint too much, consider the number of Les Paul Jr's and SG's out there that have not much more than that in the way of support. As long as you don't toss it across the room, it'll be fine.

**skarhead** · 02-12-2004, 08:35 AM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

Also consider the function of the neck plate: it distributes the force of the screw heads over a broader area. That distribution spreads the stress on the wood over a larger area thereby helping to prevent problems that might arrise if relatively more force were applied to a much smaller area.

i haven't thought about that [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]
but from the physical point you have definitely right, i never thought about the neck plate in that way

so i could work well ?

are the standard woods for jackson bodies ok ? ( alder / maybe poplar ) ?

from what i've read it would be only dangerous if i'd pull the whammy bar up to an angle about 45 degrees ?

**Budman68** · 02-12-2004, 09:49 AM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

Personally, I think you would be fine. In the pics I sent you, you'll notice I relieved the back of the body by about 3/8ths of an inch as well as the cutaway because the original Avenger body was just WAY too thick. It's actually a very good feel for me but I don't have little hands. If you are going to angle it like the picture you drew, I wouldn't go any "steeper" of an angle than that. Good luck with your project and let us know if you decide to do it [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Dave->

**Boxcar Willie 84** · 02-12-2004, 11:15 AM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

I think some ESPs have heels that are like that. Should be ok.

**toejam** · 02-12-2004, 06:52 PM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

Originally posted by Boxcar Willie 84:
I think some ESPs have heels that are like that. Should be ok.

Yep, ESP did do that.

**YetAnotherOne** · 02-12-2004, 07:37 PM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

Yay I found my camera's battery charger! Here's a pic of the heel on my Hamer:

**YetAnotherOne** · 02-12-2004, 08:01 PM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

Oops, my bad, I posted the wrong pic above and now can't edit it since more than the allowed 2.234 seconds has passed since I submitted the post (admins, please delete the post above).

Here's a pic from a better angle:

**toejam** · 02-12-2004, 09:22 PM

Re: just curious how would that affect the sustain ??

Nice Hamer! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Both of my '94 Jackson Dinky HX models taper like that, too. They're also string-thru TOM, so I'm not sure if the tilted back neck angle has anything to do with it or not.

Now that I'm thinking of the ESP thing, their neck plates weren't exactly square and actually had a little angle cutout in them.

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