Duncan Designed vs. J90C

[PowerTube]

I have a cheapie Indian-made Jackson DX10X with Duncan Designed PUPs and a Charvel Model 2 with the stock Jackson J90C PUP. I usually play the Charvel because the DX10X is, well, a DX10X!Tonight, for the first time ever, I played them back to back with the same amp settings. Are you ready for this? The DX10X sounded thicker and chunkier. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Since the Charvel sounds much thicker acoustically, the only explanation I can think of is the pickups.

So, two questions:

Are the two Duncan Designed PUPs in the DX the same, or is there one model for the bridge and one for the neck?

I have the cover off of the J90C, which increased the output, but it still sounds dull compared to the DDs. Is this normal?

Thanks.

[RacerX]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

Yah, J90s are kinda weak.

[PowerTube]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

Originally posted by RacerX:
Yah, J90s are kinda weak.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What I'm thinking is to maybe swap the neck pickup from the DX10X and the J90C from the Model 2. Since I rarely use the neck PUP anyway, no love lost there.

But, is the neck PU the same as the bridge?

[etaeniura]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

THe two DD HB's i have are designated for bridge by a "B" at the end of the number (HB102B) so I wouls assume the neck ones are "N". Just go ahead and try it, it won't hurt anything to switch them.

[PowerTube]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

Originally posted by etaeniura:
THe two DD HB's i have are designated for bridge by a "B" at the end of the number (HB102B) so I wouls assume the neck ones are "N". Just go ahead and try it, it won't hurt anything to switch them.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the info. Sure enough, I looked up the DX10D at Jackson's site (they don't make the DX10X anymore), and they're listed like you said, "B" for the bridge and "N" for the neck.

Since the Model 2 is a 1-humbucker guitar, how do the think the HB102N would sound in it?

[JACKSONFREAK]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

believe thas the DD version of a neck JB, It would be a little bit lower output than the bridge and mayhave a bit more clearity to compensate for the bassier response at the neck possition so it may be cool in the bridge of the Model 2.
Gil

[PowerTube]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

Originally posted by JACKSONFREAK:
believe thas the DD version of a neck JB, It would be a little bit lower output than the bridge and mayhave a bit more clearity to compensate for the bassier response at the neck possition so it may be cool in the bridge of the Model 2.
Gil

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks, JF. Would it be more powerful than the J90C? The Bridge PU (HB102B) in the DX10X sure was.

[JACKSONFREAK]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

I don't think it will be tow powerful than the J90C. Its a neck pickup which are typicaly wound with less output than the bridge because of the
strings being louder in the neck position naturally. So if the bridge is say 16.5kohms the neck would probabl be around 12.0kohms. or there abouts. The j90C is a distortion class pup but it is ceramic so it has a bit more bite than the HB103 and a hotter output. It should probabl be around the tone and /or output of a full shred with more clearity.
Gil

[Ace]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

It doesn't matter which pickup you put in the Model 2 since it has only one pickup. However, if you put to bridge pickups in one guitar, you will get problems. Since the windings on the two pickups will be exactly the same, you will make them out of phase if you run both pickups at the same time, making the guitar very weak sounding.

[PowerTube]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

Originally posted by Ace:
It doesn't matter which pickup you put in the Model 2 since it has only one pickup. However, if you put to bridge pickups in one guitar, you will get problems. Since the windings on the two pickups will be exactly the same, you will make them out of phase if you run both pickups at the same time, making the guitar very weak sounding.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks. That's what I was looking for. Maybe I can find another pickup for the Model 2.
[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Jester700]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

Originally posted by Ace:
It doesn't matter which pickup you put in the Model 2 since it has only one pickup. However, if you put to bridge pickups in one guitar, you will get problems. Since the windings on the two pickups will be exactly the same, you will make them out of phase if you run both pickups at the same time, making the guitar very weak sounding.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wait...What? No way. It all depends on how you wire them. If wired normally, they shouldn't be out of phase AT ALL. The only "problem" is if you don't like the sound of the pickup in that position. You absolutely CAN use the same exact kind of pickups in both positions without problems; 50 years of Fenders & Gibsons say so...

[dg]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

I don't think output is the issue here as much as the voicing of the pickups. According to the manual, the J90C was their highest output pickup, but it was designed to accentuate the mids and highs. Keep in mind, we're talking about the mid/late '80s here. Compare current tones to most of the metal of that era. I grew up on that stuff & I love it, but it can sound pretty shrill next to newer music. The pickups in your DX10X were voiced to play the music of their era, and probably have more emphasis on the bottom end, for a more thick & chunky tone. I'm not sure exactly what sound you're after, but if you want a high-output pickup with more bottom end for your Charvel, you might want to check out the Duncan Invader. There are tons of choices out there.

[Ace]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

When we make pickups at my shop we always wind the neck and bridge pickups opposite for a given guitar, and the polarity has to be taken into account as well. And I can't think of any Gibsons or Fenders with the EXACT same pickups in the neck or bridge. If you look at many guitars with two humbuckers you can see that the bridge pickup has screwheads on the bridge pickup has screw heads on the bridge side and slugs on the neck side, and the neck pickup is opposite. The best way to see if it is going to work is to try it.

Also neck pickups tend to be slightly lower output to compensate for the fact that the guitar string creates a stronger signal closer to the center of the string.

[charvel750]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

Sorry, Ace, your logic is flawed. The only difference between a neck/bridge pickup that is calibrated as such is output. Some may be voiced for the tonal response you'd want from the position, but there are no hard and fast rules. Jackson often put Duncan JB's in the neck, yet Duncan makes no such model.

[PowerTube]

Re: Duncan Designed vs. J90C

I appreciate all of the input, guys, but when all is said and done....

1. Is the HB102N (Neck pickup) more or less powerful (hotter/less hot) than the J90C?

2. Is the HB102N (neck pickup) voiced too "clean" to sound good in the bridge (only) position of the Model 2?

In other words, the HB102B in the DX10 is definitely hotter than the J90C, but would the neck pickup (HB102N) be hotter, as well?