Neck Pocket Creak

[Bengal]

Hello All!
I just got a new bolt-on with a floating trem. The neck creaks when I depress or raise the trem. Not every time but it does it. I've noticed it's coming from the neck pocket. I did just shim the neck pocket. Any advice on how to get rid of it? I've got the screws so tight, the neck won't move. But something is creaking in there. So, any ideas? Sandpaper? A quick drop on the floor?

[USA Fusion]

Hey there Bengal,
Being in the construction trade, if there is a creak, there is movement ... if you are POSITIVE the neck is not & cannot move, the first thing I would look towards would be the spring claw. Put just a drop of lubricant where the loop of the spring goes around the claw. I have on occasion lubricated the spring coils themselves. Dont forget a drop on the pivots on the trem. The theory is, on the springs, when you depress or raise the trem, the springs are moving ... and if there is any binding, you can get a creaking sound, which would be transfered to the body thru the screws on the spring claw .. then amplified in the small void in the neck pocket (kinda like an acoustic guitar) created by the shims in the neck pocket. Ill ponder some more, but that is something that I have ran into first hand before, and how I fixed it .....


~kevin

[kelly user]

i have the same problem, i tighten the lock nut, and it got rid of the clicking for 30 min. then i was back a square one. i'll try and lube it up as well.

[Alvin_Wilson]

Hey there Bengal,
Being in the construction trade, if there is a creak, there is movement ... if you are POSITIVE the neck is not & cannot move, the first thing I would look towards would be the spring claw. Put just a drop of lubricant where the loop of the spring goes around the claw. I have on occasion lubricated the spring coils themselves. Dont forget a drop on the pivots on the trem. The theory is, on the springs, when you depress or raise the trem, the springs are moving ... and if there is any binding, you can get a creaking sound, which would be transfered to the body thru the screws on the spring claw .. then amplified in the small void in the neck pocket (kinda like an acoustic guitar) created by the shims in the neck pocket. Ill ponder some more, but that is something that I have ran into first hand before, and how I fixed it .....


~kevin

Great post! That is some excellent information. Alvin walks away from the computer to lubricate his springs.

[Bengal]

That may be it. I was assuming that it was in the neck screw hole. Like it's not quite tight in there. I can't move the neck in the pocket, but it seems to me that there is a bit of "give" in the screw holes...

What I'm considering is either removing the shim, it's a cut end of a business card, and replacing it with dry wall sandpaper. That should help grip the neck to the body...

What about the old time tested fix for strap buttons? Putting toothpicks in the holes in the neck? Would that help the screw bite down more? It works with strap buttons so I don't know why it wouldn't in the neck pocket. I'm gonna have to try it...

[USA Fusion]

Hey Bengal, there is a downside to performing the "toothpick in the hole" repair on the neck screws, as it becomes VERY easy to shift the neck in the pocket to either the bass or treble side and get the strings close to the edge.... if you are really careful you can do it and shift the neck laterally which would result in only an intonation adjustment ... but ... a guitars best tone and sustain is acheived when you have maximum contact between the neck and body (hence a neck thru or set neck having such great sustain) ... which equates to the prefered solution/fix being to fill & redrill the neck holes ....


~kevin


edited to repair some really crappy grammer --- ksp

[Bengal]

It seems like the neck pocket isn't quite tight enough. I can get the neck so it won't move side to side. But if I slightly push up or down, it will creak, making me believe it's the neck pocket but it still could be the screws. I don't get it because the neck pocket is tight as hell. But it's quite an annoying problem. Drives me nuts. I had this problem on an older Jackson Fusion and I filled the holes and re-drilled but it still made the same creak when you messed with the trem. Some maybe just fatally flawed...

Any chance this will go away after the guitar settles? Any precident for that?

[S-man]

I don't get it because the neck pocket is tight as hell.

That could be the problem. I've seen it before and a little sandpaper remedied the problem. The neck is going to move in the pocket to some degree no matter what you do.

Just an idea.

[USA Fusion]

OK Bengal,
here is what I would do ... looking at the pic below ... remove the neck, insert your 'toothpicks' in the holes shaded green ... make sure the neck pocket and the heel of the neck are both clean void of debris ... put neck in position and insert the 2 screws shaded lavender (mainly to align the neck as close to the original position as possible) and snug them down (to help hold the neck in this position once the green shaded screws hit the 'toothpicks') ... now insert the 2 green shaded screws and tighten them down criss-crossing from opposing diagonal corners ... make sure ....

the idea is, if the creaking is coming when you are applying & releasing lateral pressure to the neck, then the lavender shaded screws are/would be acting as a fulcrum, and the green shaded screws is where the majority of the movement would be coming from .. hence the red shaded heel of the neck pocket being a really good culprit for where the squeek is coming from .... ive also been known to hit the finish's IN the pocket with some sandpaper just to give a couple thousandths more clearance ....

My fear would be, if your neck is moving enough to creak ... you could have tuning stability issues .... all my necks on my guitars are rock solid and have no movement. Hence filling and redrilling the holes so that you can really get a grip with them screws to hold everything tight.

hardwood floors are only nailed every 6-8 inches and not get any creaks (remember creaks indicate movement) ... with a guitar neck you have 4 SCREWS in 6 sq inches ... I expect "0" movement there in my own guitars.

~kevin



Edited again for horrid grammar ... ksp

[Bengal]

Kevin,
Man, I owe you one. Thanks for taking the time to write all that and the diagram. I'm positive the creak is coming from the area in red on your diagram. Here's what I've already done...

I replaced the paper shim with dry wall sandpaper. The black kind thats abrasive on both sides. This doing 2 things, acting as a shim and also providing some more "grab". I then put a small, small piece of a toothpick in all 4 holes. They were very small though and dropped right in. I then put the neck back on. I also lubed the trem claw like you mentioned above...

I cannot get the neck to creak when a small amount of force is applied side-to-side. But I can get some when I slightly push up or down on the neck a la Jimmy Page getting some good viabrato out of his LP. Now I'm not pushing hard on the neck. But the creak doesn't come every time I do it. It's intermitent. Just like when using the trem. It's not every time. But every time it creaks I check the scewes closest to the body and sometimes they srew in a bit more...

So I'm wondering if it's just getting settled. I've never heard of that but maybe the body is working against the shim and giving a little more each time. The guitar is an Ibanez with the AANJ. Never had a problem with one of these before, hence my stupidity...

Thanks for the help guys! Hopefully I can get this figured out...

[USA Fusion]

Hey Bengal,
Its not a problem at all ... with the onset of my computer literacy it doesnt take all that long to do a diagram up like that ....

Ibanez is terrible for having too much finish in that 'red' area ... I have 3 Ibanez' with the all access joint, and all 3 of them needed to have the finish hit on the heel of the neck & the front edge of the pocket before I was satisfied with the fit of the necks ... the jem7vwh and the 7 string were both worse being 'painted' finishes whilst the RG2020x being translucent was tight as a booger all the way around, but not really any creaks ... but some say the prestige 2020x had a little more 'fit and finish' time over other models ....

I hope that helps ya out, my friend ...


~kevin

[Bengal]

Kevin,
What did you do with the finish? Just sand it down? And you did this on both the neck and the body, right?

That may help as well...

[USA Fusion]

Gimme a sec ... gonna do another diagram ...

[Bengal]

You rule...

Also, it's not really a big creak. It's just a small one that comes and goes. The neck seems rock solid to my hands, but every once and a while I can get it to let out this little thing. It does not effect the tuning at all, the neck is not really moving, just something is giving in there every once and a while...

I have not had this guitar for a week but I can't seem to remember it doing this before I took the neck off to ad the shim. It badly needed a shim. I don't know if the neck has ever been off before. There was no shim, but that's common in this era Ibanez RG...

[USA Fusion]

Here is the area in question

let me know how this does ........


I do this out of the love of the instrument and music ... I normally have 2 or 3 guitars a week pass thru my hands fixing annoying nuances ... lol ....

If this doesnt do it ... im not leaning this way as of yet, but, im gonna research adjusting the truss rod ... I would be inclined to think, if the truss rod was going to creak when lateral pressure was applied, it would be absorbed at the headstock where the adjustment is at .. not at the heel where it is permanantly afixed ....


~kevin