About floating trems, scale, and string tension....

[PowerTube]

Okay, brace yourselves for a (probably) stupid question. Why is it that you can take two guitars, both with floating trems and the same exact string brand and gauge, tune them to the same pitch, and have noticeably different playing tensions?

Also, does scale length have anything to do with this? What about 22 vs. 24 frets?

[Budman68]

Re: About floating trems, scale, and string tension....

Actually, it has to do with scale AND believe it or not, the springs attached to the trem can vary in strength which also gives you a different feel.


Dave->

[Evol]

Re: About floating trems, scale, and string tension....

Different truss rod adjustments and/or how high/low the action is will affect tension as well.

[etaeniura]

Re: About floating trems, scale, and string tension....

Scale length will be the biggest factor, followed by the trem springs-IMO.

Standard 25.5 inch scale will have a stiffer feel than a 24.75 inch scale, simply because the shorter srtring length will be under less tension when at pitch.

With floating trems, the stiffness of the springs will affect tension because anytime you fret a note or bend a string, the bridge gives a little. This makes the tension feel a little softer, but makes it more difficult to bend that string up to pitch as opposed to a hard tail bridge. Some bridges give more or less depending on the spring type, and how much distance there is between the pivot points and the saddle (it is like a lever thing I suppose-any physicists out there, back me up!)

[zeegler]

Re: About floating trems, scale, and string tension....

As far as pure physics go, scale length should be the only factor that affects string tension when comparing guitars with the same string gauge and same pitch. A short scale guitar will require less tension to achieve the same pitch. This is why it's a good idea to use a longer scale when using low tunings, hence the popularity of baritone guitars lately. It's also the same reason that bass guitars have a longer scale length. Lower tunings on a shorter scale will result in sloppy, buzzy strings.

Now having said that, string height (action) will also make a difference to fretted string tension. Obviously the further you have to push the strings down to fret them, the higher the tension becomes. Of course the higher the action is on a guitar, the more difficult it is to compensate the scale length due to the extra tension required to push down the strings. Think of it this way: let's say you have a guitar with ridiculously high action, and a scale length of exactly 25-1/2". Tune the open string to pitch, and then fret the string at the 12th fret. The distance to this fret is 12-3/4", and should result in the same note as the open string, but an octave higher. However, it doesn't, because as the string is being pushed towards the fretboard the tension increases, resulting in a sharp note. The idea behind intonation, or saddle compensation, is to compensate for this added tension. Basically, if you increase the overall string length, the frets actually end up in the wrong place to play the correct notes, and without the extra string tension, would all be flat. However, once you take into consideration the extra tension of pushing the string down to the fretboard, the note returns to it's correct pitch. A result of this compensation effect, is that on guitars with particularly high action, you will notice that harmonics will be found easier slightly past the fret (towards the bridge)whereas on a guitar with low action, the harmonics should be directly over the fret.

[MountainDog]

Re: About floating trems, scale, and string tension....

Another 'physics' thing to consider (assuming same guitar, same scale length, same strings, same springs) is the angle of the floyd. Since the floyd pivots on the bushings about 1" ahead of where the strings are, there is a slight 'lever' action. If the floyd is angled slightly up (the rear of the main plate higher off the body than the front) by a few degrees, when bending a string, the floyd is naturally pulled up further along its upward arc. If the floyd is set up as being angled down (the rear lower than the front), when you bend strings, you have the extra tension of pulling the floyd up to horizontal, and then pulling it into its upward arc. I've experimented with this over the years and due to this, always set my floyd at about a 5 degree 'up' angle.

I've also noted that many guitar manufacturers recommend the angle be from 2 deg to 5 deg (see picture page two)
http://www.peavey.com/media/pdf/manuals/80301047.pdf

[zeegler]

Re: About floating trems, scale, and string tension....

Hey Mountaindog, that is something I hadn't considered, but you are correct. However, I would say that once the trem is past the horizontal point, the tension on the strings will actually decrease in comparison to if it were a fixed bridge of some type. If the bridge is moving even the slightest amount, that means there is give, and therefore lower tension, whereas with a fixed bridge, there is zero give.

[PowerTube]

Re: About floating trems, scale, and string tension....

Thanks for the responses, guys. I think the scale issue is my answer here. What brought this up was that I tried a Fusion recently (short scale) and it seemed a lot more "relaxed" than my Model 2 (25.5" scale). I always keep my floating trems exactly level to the body.

[zeegler]

Re: About floating trems, scale, and string tension....

Originally posted by PowerTube:
Thanks for the responses, guys. I think the scale issue is my answer here. What brought this up was that I tried a Fusion recently (short scale) and it seemed a lot more "relaxed" than my Model 2 (25.5" scale). I always keep my floating trems exactly level to the body.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's why I prefer short scale guitars I guess. I use a heavier gauge string 10-46, and I bend a lot. Fender scale just feels awkward to me.

[Ace]

Re: About floating trems, scale, and string tension....

To awnser the rest of your question, no, number of frets has nothing to do with string tension.