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Gotoh Trem Installation Experience (long post)

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  • Gotoh Trem Installation Experience (long post)

    Hello fellow forum members...I've been a long time lurker on this forum and have finally decided to post so let me begin by briefly introducing myself. My name is Erik and I'm an electronics tech at a music store in South Texas called Melhart Music Center. I've worked on several Jacksons, a few Charvels, and have owned a transparent black SLSMG, so I have plenty of experience on the subject of Jackson guitars. I'm also the only person around here, it seems, that still has a Jackson truss rod wrench.

    About a month ago, my friend decided to do a bridge swap on his transparent green warrior. When he asked me what bridge I recommend I had no clue. I had once done a trem swap with an original Floyd but was put off by the excessive brightness the ofr introduced to my S-470. I looked on e-bay for the cheapest good quality bridge i could find and came across a black Gotoh tremolo for 129. He went ahead and ordered it and had me install it.

    I thought it would be a simple swap but it turned to be quite the learning experience. First, the studs that were supplied were much beefier than the puny studs in the warrior. I didn't want to compromise the stability of the bridge so i decided to pull out the old studs and inserts. The inserts didn't budge when i pulled on the studs so I softened up the surrounding glue with a heat gun and pried them out. Next I had to install the new inserts, so I reamed out the holes a bit and hammered the new inserts in. The inserts stuck out a little but I didn't think it was a big deal...more on this later.

    I then slipped in the bridge for a test fit but the cavity was too short for the allen screws that hold the strings in place, and the bridge was also rubbing against the right side of the cavity. I took the guitar to a friend's house extended and widened the tremolo cavity with his router and put a coat of black spray paint on all of the bare wood. I then strung it up only to find that the bridge block stuck out of the back of the guitar.

    Unable to find a shorter gotoh bridge block, I decided to cut it down to size. I took measurements of the original block, marked the new block and went ahead and cut almost a centimeter off of the side that meets the bridge with a chop saw. Lucky for me, the mounting holes were drilled and tapped very deep so i didn't have to make new mounting holes for the bridge block.

    I strung up the guitar and realized that i couldn't get the bridge low enough to play comfortably. Apparently, the stud inserts were way too high. My co-worker suggested shimming the neck to compensate. He shaved a popsicle stick down and stuck it in the neck joint. This did the trick so after a week of problem solving I delivered the guitar to my friend.

    Two weeks later my friend returned to tell me that his intonation was off, a fret was buzzing out and that this time he needed it back in time for a show opening up for Divine Heresy. The fret was a quick fix, I simply put some glue on the 18th fret and re-tapped it into place. The intonation was another story. He said that he needed to to move 6th string saddle forward, he's very competent when it comes to gear so I didn't question his judgement. I disassembled the bridge and marked the spot for the new intonation hole. I almost went insane looking for drill bits and the tap I needed to do the job. I found the bits after searching for almost a week, so I finally got to work on the bridge. The hardened steel was a pain to drill through so I spent an hour and three bits until I finally got through. Then the tap broke after one quarter turn. I told my friend the situation and he said he could live with the intonation being off. I forgot about the guitar for a while and my friend reminded me that his gig is tomorrow. Today, I re-assembled and re-strung his guitar and checked the intonation. It turns out he had been moving the saddle the wrong way, so I intonated the guitar and gave it back to my friend.

    The guitar sounds amazing now, it has more low end with the same amount of clarity. He can flutter the bar easily, and the guitar stays in tune after dives with the strings unlocked. It also looks a heck of a lot better, the saddles look modern and the bridge is more comfortable. The end result was definitely worth all the time and effort it took to have the tremolo function properly.

    Moral of the story: Always be sure a part is a direct swap if you want to save yourself the headache of making it fit, and when approached with a problem always see for yourself if something is wrong, user error is very common.

  • #2
    a few things wrong with the story...bridge studs arent held in by glue...the heat simply opened the holes in the wood up to allow the insert to come out. no glue though. and you should have made the holes a bit deeper as well to fit the whole inserts in there (they should be flush with the wood). shimming works, but the inserts have to be in the wood well to keep from moving around and widening the hole over time not to mention a popsicle stick? most of the time shims are done with thinner pieces of wood than that. popsicle stick seems a bit extreme to me! LOL

    and the intonation should have been checked to see if he was doing it wrong in the first place (people have brain farts...ive even adjusted saddles the wrong way before!) nothing like having a 2nd head to think about stuff, it can really keep a lot of problems from happening.

    anyways...welcome aboard! i didnt mean my post to seem condescending...im just giving you some info so you can get in there and maybe get the guitar fixed up right. id hate to see your buddy pull the inserts out of the guitar because the holes got wider after messing with the bar for a while!!!
    My metal band Lucian Scott
    Debut Album Defiance on the Steps of Heaven
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    Lucian Scott Soundclick

    Soundclick page : clips and jams

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    • #3
      The posts may have glued in as an earlier mod though. I have done that to all my J/C's that had Floyd bushings, because the posts came loose after a few years, and this caused tuning instability. I use a rather non-agressive glue though, that will "break" before the wood does, in case I'd need to remove a bushing.

      SSM: Welcome to the board, and thanks a lot for the tech tips!

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      • #4
        hey bro, are you from mc allen, i'm from donna.
        "slappy, slappy" bill sings, happily, as he dick slaps random people on the streets of Cleveland.

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        • #5
          No offense dude, but judging by your little story there, I certainly would not want you working on one of my guitars. There is SOOOO much wrong there, I don't even know where to start.
          Sleep!!, That's where I'm a viking!!

          http://www.myspace.com/grindhouseadtheband

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          • #6
            Sunbane: The popsicle stick was cut down and sanded to around a third of its thickness with a belt sander. Yes, it slipped off my fingers a few times leaving me with raw finger tips. Like I said, my friend is really knowledgeable when it comes to gear so when he said his guitar wasn't intonating properly I didn't second guess him and got right to work on the bridge. After I told him he was doing it wrong, brain fart is the same phrase he used to describe his screw up. Lastly, the posts are in there extremely tight so I doubt they'll come loose anytime soon.

            Kelly user: I'm from Pharr actually, and have been working at the store for about 8 months now, send me a message or an e-mail so we can talk gear sometime.

            And last but not least, Zeegler: I have plenty of experience working on guitars and have earned the trust of many experienced musicians around here...this post was an example of the unexpected things that come up when modifying a guitar and finding solutions to those issues so you don't quit and end up with a spare body and a drawer full of hardware. If you could see and play the warrior you'd definitely change your mind.

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            • #7
              Welcome to the board! Interesting story too. I never really thought that the type of floating bridge would make much difference in the sound.
              Scott

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              • #8
                Soundsl like it turned out ok but imho shouldnt have been that difficult. You could have probably dropped the trem right in there and used the existing posts and inserts and been done in about 10 minutes.

                Why in the world would you drill the baseplate before trying to intonate? So the guy screws up and moves the saddle the wrong way and you dont verify that before getting out the drill? Dunno...could have saved yourself some heartache but the bottom line is your buddy will be happy
                shawnlutz.com

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                • #9
                  I'm glad it came together in the end, but the fact is, you should have made sure it was going to work before you had him buy that bridge. I assume that since the locking screws were too long, that the original bridge was most likely one of the cheapo Schaller-type knock-offs that Jackson uses. The only trems that are direct replacements for it, are the Floyd Rose II, and the Schaller floyd. As for the posts, I see nothing wrong with changing them, but first off, I would never use a heat gun to "soften the glue". As someone aready mentioned, the posts shouldn't be glued in in the first place. Aside from that, a heat gun could easily take the paint off in that area too. I've removed dozens of bridge posts in my life, and never had a problem gently prying them out with a little jig i made. Before putting the new posts in, you should have drilled the holes wide enough and deep enough to accept them, WITHOUT hammering them in. If the hole is too tight, requiring a lot of force to drive them in, you could very easily split the wood. They should go in with nothing more than a gentle tapping. It's much easier (and better) to make sure your bridge posts are inserted all the way, rather than having to shim the neck. As for the intonation issue, someone already covered that.
                  Sleep!!, That's where I'm a viking!!

                  http://www.myspace.com/grindhouseadtheband

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                  • #10
                    Welcome, solidstatesman. Quite a story with the trem job, glad it worked out.

                    I have to +1 zeegs with regards to hammering the new inserts in. I really hope they didn't fit too tight.

                    There ain't much wood surrounding some parts of the studs area and it doesn't take much force to crack the wood. I would watch that guitar for hairline cracks walking from the studs and towards the trem route area.
                    Last edited by jackson1; 09-13-2007, 04:59 PM.
                    Henrik
                    AUDIOZONE.DK - a guitar site for the Jackson and Charvel fan

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by solidstatesman View Post
                      I have plenty of experience working on guitars and have earned the trust of many experienced musicians around here...this post was an example of the unexpected things that come up when modifying a guitar and finding solutions to those issues so you don't quit and end up with a spare body and a drawer full of hardware. If you could see and play the warrior you'd definitely change your mind.
                      No offense, and sorry in advance if I come off condescending, but if you have plenty of experience like you say you do, I would certainly think a better approach to this whole job would've been taken. Just reading your story (as interesting as it was) made me cringe. Honestly, alot of the problems you had were simply made by you. That said, I certainly hope you learned from all this, several things. First thing being, going back and sinking those inserts in, deeper, and checking for stress cracks.
                      I'm not Ron!

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                      • #12
                        I actually just tapped the stud inserts in, my wording makes it seem like I used a 20 pound sledgehammer. I did keep in mind that I could strip the paint with intense heat, the heat gun I used is designed for removing surface mount components and has a very narrow point that blows heat in a small area.

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