Intonation Mystery -Advice Needed

[T@rgetDrone]

Yes. I do stretch the strings. Not the way posted in the link. I do give attention to the area behind the nut. Next time I do a string change I might try the posted technique. Never seen it done that way before. I basically use one hand - two or three fingers and pull up and to each side. The way in the vid looks easier. Very cool! Thanks for posting the link.

The neck is not twisted as far as I can tell. Also doesn't seem to make sense that if it was that only the A string would be affected. As all other strings sync up very well in open notes, fretted notes and harmonics.

As an update, I reshimed the nut and slightly altered the neck angle (another shim). These changes did not completely cure the problem but it made it much easier to negotiate a compromise. It is now less than 10 cent +/- off across all other strings and slightly more than 10 cents off on the problem A string. Until I can locate the exact problem I can live w/it as is.

"Try using your pud to hit the 12th fret harmonic. That leaves both hands free to adjust the open string. Old trick used by blues pioneers..such as Blind Bone Capo." Is this where the term "pinch harmonics" came from? Sounds like a good idea except my aim is really bad. I might shoot my eye out. Maybe when the wife gets home from work I'll have her ride the neck. She has a thing for pointies.

[toejam]

The neck is not twisted as far as I can tell. Also doesn't seem to make sense that if it was that only the A string would be affected. As all other strings sync up very well in open notes, fretted notes and harmonics.

Doesn't make sense to me either. I'm stumped.

[leftybob]

Maybe when the wife gets home from work I'll have her ride the neck. She has a thing for pointies.

That thing will be hummin like a champ you take that approach ! Might be you answer if all else fails.

What about the physical structure of the saddle ? Could it need replacing maybe damaged ? Take it off and examine it ...

[T@rgetDrone]

I tore the entire trem apart to check things out yesterday. Aside from it being a little dirty all looked to be OK. Just normal wear. But come to think of it.... I did notice that one of the countersunk screws (trem plate to block) didn't quite seat fully flush. I tightened up as much as I could when I put everything back together. Can't remember if that particular screw was under the A string saddle or elsewhere. Maybe I will tear it apart again and recheck it.

Only other thing I can think of that I have not paid close attention to is the fretboard itself. Since adding the shims the A string is only out of sync on 3 frets. The center one of those three being the worse. I wonder if the board itself could use a leveling or needs some sort of attention n that particular area. It doesn't appear to be a fret issue - unseated, too high, too low, etc. They seem to check out OK.

This endeavor has made me more appreciative of my Charvels. Not perfect but no issues worth mentioning. They are all tighter than dick's hat band.

As an aside, the wife declined to ride that pointy. She opted for the Gibby since it has a fatter neck.

[orions]

When you guys are fretting the 12 fret how hard do you push? Reason I ask is on the low E A D strings I get different results depending on how hard I push. I can not get all stings to be dead on tuned to the open strings. On the Korg tuner it is just a little sharp on on some of the strings but depending on how hard I push I can get it dead on. Does that make sense? This is my first time having to do this and it is on a DKMGT.

sorry for the hijacking

[horns666]

Ohhh.. very good TD!! You're going to have your wife ride it like that chick on the In Trance album cover...sweet!!

Uli had a ginorous whammy. I think he was compensating for something..hmmmm. :think:

Anywhoo, sounds to me you have a good grasp on this stuff. I'm sure you'll resolve it. My kid's India cheapie Dinky w/floyd can be a pain in the ass once in a while. But that thing sounds and plays great..that's why I grabbed it.

Good Luck man..

[leftybob]

When you guys are fretting the 12 fret how hard do you push? Reason I ask is on the low E A D strings I get different results depending on how hard I push. I can not get all stings to be dead on tuned to the open strings. On the Korg tuner it is just a little sharp on on some of the strings but depending on how hard I push I can get it dead on. Does that make sense? This is my first time having to do this and it is on a DKMGT.

sorry for the hijacking

With medium to jumbo frets you could definitly change the pitch with harder pressure. I say just try to get it close to ear at that point.

[T@rgetDrone]

Yeah Bill, This thing rings like a mofo unplugged. It's a lot louder than any other basswood body (unplugged) than I've ever heard. My Gibby V is loud but it's all mahogany. This thing is louder. It has tone to the bone. Which is why I am so dead set on running this problem down and sorting it out. As for the wife, I don't mind her ridiing my axes. Now if I can just talk her into a twosome.... Riding the Gibby while poping that balloon knot with the Jackson Pointy. Maybe I should restring both with a heavier gauge just in case. Makes for a better guide rope to retrieve them. Film At 11!

Orions - No two guitars are exactly the same. Scale, fret wire and string gauge all affect how they check out up and own the neck. Rule of thumb is to put just enough pressure on the string to get a clean tone. But it is certainly not an exact science. Generally, "as close as you can get it" is almost always plenty good enough...... with the one noted exception of this bugger I am working on.

[atdguitars]

Here is something you can try as well. I had a customer with a similar problem last year.
First off make sure the A string is actually resting in the nut at the very front and not on a burr or bump in the nut. Sometimes the nuts aren't machined right and they will rest on the back of the nut slot and throw things off.
Measure from the fretboard side of the nut to dead center of the Floyd baseplate. Now measure from the low E side of the nut to to the Floyd and the high E side of the nut and compare measurements. If for some reason the Floyd isn't perfectly square to to the nut it can make intonation a nightmare. It doesn't take much to throw them off.
Also check and make sure the neck is actually mounted where it is supposed to be by measuring from the Nut to the 12th fret and measuring from the 12th fret to the saddles to see that the distance is equal and that 25.5" lies where it should. If the pocket was cut wrong, or the floyd mounted a bit too far forward, it could cause these same problems.
The other thing you might try is blocking the floyd while doing all this to make sure its not moving with string pressure and make sure the neck isn't resting on anything when you check the intonation.
Also double check that the nut is actually parallel to the frets .

[javert]

horns, haha, I had completely forgotten about the In Trance cover. I guess the scorps hold the record for most covers banned in the US

[T@rgetDrone]

Thanks for the input ATD. I checked everything you mentioned. Some things I checked over the last two days. But I rechecked anyway just to be sure.

The nut seat was without any burrs but was a hair high. I filed it down just a hair yesterday and rechecked today to make sure all was OK. Nut is parallel with the frets. Following your measurements I found that both sides did not come out equal from the nut to the Floyd. I thought the Floyd was off but it wasn't.

What I found were two problems. I can't believe I overlooked them after all the time I spent on this. One was obvious. The Low E side of the Floyd stud had pulled out some from the body. DOH! I reseated it and it is now fine. The other problem I would not have found had you not suggested the measurements. The neck itself was not quite square in the pocket. It wasn't off much but enough to screw things up. I now have it properly aligned.

She's now hot to trot and good to go! Thanks again to all that chimed in. I greatly appreciate it.

[javert]

Excellent, you're ready to rock again!

[leftybob]

She's now hot to trot and good to go! Thanks again to all that chimed in. I greatly appreciate it.