It's been 12 years. Time for a retrofit. Step inside.

[aliensporebomb]

Hello all.

Okay, I've had my SL2 since 1998 or so. I love the guitar, but the tuning stability on the
original trem is starting to get to me. It was great at first but I've had it over ten years
now and it's starting to get a little iffy when using the trem.

Here's the original trem:



Here's the guitar:



I have heard replacing the trem stud mounting inserts and posts can stabilize one
of these Jackson trems.

I've also considered retrofitting an old OFR I have for this guitar. Some problems:

Here's the original cavities for the stud inserts:



Here's a close-up:



Normal enough, right?

Here's the original Jackson (Takeuchi) stud inserts installed in the guitar.



You'll see they insert correctly.

Now I ordered original Floyd stud inserts and screws and tried to install them:



They go insert into the cavities but get quite tight. I'm reluctant to force it
and think I might need a luthier with a drill press or something to widen the
holes just a tiny bit. I'm wondering why they don't fit to begin with as it's
an SL2 but.....

It appears the Jackson trem would work but if I'm doing this kind of thing why
not retrofit it further for a real OFR? It's a Soloist after all.

You can see in the next picture the OFR inserts + studs versus the Takeuchi OEM on the right:



Parts separated:



The OFR threads on the screws are much finer than that of the Takeuchi which are
more like fancier wood screws while the threads on the outside of the Takeuchi
stud inserts seems finer than the more robust outsides of the OFR.

Now, all is not lost here, I'm considering retrofitting this:



Which has been sitting on my desk as a paperweight for at least ten years.

I'm considering getting the graphtech $80 stringsaver saddle set for this OFR
since it's missing a few parts but I think the guitar would have better tuning
stability if I go in the OFR direction rather than trying to soup up the Jackson
trem by using the posts and studs for an OFR.

The only downside is this Floyd has the arm that you install/remove with a
wrench instead of screwing it on and off the guitar with finger pressure.

Also, the underside of the knife edges has some corrosion on that trem:



It appears the knife edges are okay but wonder if the corrosion is a problem...

Anyone try an upgrade along these lines? Anyone have any advice at this point
if you've gone thru a similar process?

[Grandturk]

Nice pics bro - very detailed.

Here's my first question - what do the knife edges on the original trem look like?

To me - the original posts looks fine - I would think the problem may lay with:

- knife edges
- worn string lock nut blocks
- tired springs

If the Knife edges are fine, I would question the nut lock blocks and the springs.

Also - does the OFR fit in the trem route?

[aliensporebomb]

Hi!

Thanks for responding.

The trem fits the cavity perfectly - in fact, here they are face to face and the
features line up (bad pic since I took pic one handed holding the trems with the other):



I would not mind using the original tremelo but since I have an OFR it may be
more stable.

The Jackson trem shows that the original knife edges look good and the springs
are good too (I'm running four). But.....

Where the real issue lies is there is some play with the studs/stud inserts, it is
more pronounced on the bass strings side of the guitar. Probably because there
is more pressure from the heavier strings.

I almost need to make a youtube movie to show this....

The treble strings insert has very little play. The bass side might be moving
1-2 mm towards the bridge pickup and you can push it towards the bottom of
the tremelo rout, so 1-2 mm total.

I can still use the whammy but I'd rather be playing than tuning so I figure it's
time to address this before the post holes ovalize or something.

I figure if the guitar is using the OFR components it will be tighter and move
less since the new parts are slightly larger.

Also, if I go to Graphtech string saver saddles on an OFR I'm told tuning stability
is even further.

I don't go nuts with the whammy (once in a great while) but I use it as a light
vibrato a lot and I suspect that I might just have too high expectations for this.

One other thing I didn't mention: when I got the guitar it had .013s on it and I
could whammy fearlessly on it. I found it hard to find .013s for rock playing in
standard tuning (plus faster techniques were really hard to accomplish) so I
eventually went from .013s to .011s and now I'm on .10s (I'm older now!).

[Kisonen]

I would use those OFR posts. They are supposed to be harder material.

I also would just get new parts for that OFR. Couple of new saddles, string inserts and string locking screws.

New trem arm kit comes with parts to change it to thumb screw style.

How tall is the sustain block on that OFR? does it fit inside the trem cavity?

Stewmac should have OFR parts available.

Graphtec saddles will make your guitar sound duller.

Hope this helps.

[aliensporebomb]

Kisonen

Thanks for the suggestions.

I think step one will be:

Get the OFR posts installed.

TRY the Jackson trem with these posts.

If that works - issue resolved.

If it's okay but not ideal I'll look at replacing OFR parts.

The six pack of Graphtec saddles seemed like an ideal thing to try because you
get all six, they supposedly added to the tuning stability. Makes the guitar duller?
It is a trebly sounding guitar (not in a bad way).

First step to talk to a local luthier to see if they can get the posts installed.

[DonP]

Those heavy strings tuned to concert pitch probably put a huge amount of stress on the bushing holes in the wood. The wood probably gave way under the pressure and the bushing holes widened.

I hope drilling and inserting new larger bushings will stabilize your trem.

Think about it, if the bushing isn't solid and tight in the wood, they can move around. Every time you use the whammy you are moving the bushings around, and if they don't return to exactly the same position when you are done, you'll be out of tune.

[Kisonen]

Thanks for the suggestions.


The six pack of Graphtec saddles seemed like an ideal thing to try because you
get all six, they supposedly added to the tuning stability. Makes the guitar duller?
It is a trebly sounding guitar (not in a bad way).

Graphite saddles will make the guitar sound less bright than the ones made of metal.

I don't understand how graphtec saddles are suppose to add any tuning stability because the string are already locked at the saddles. There is lot of marketing talk on Graphtec website but I don't believe the hype.

[toejam]

Graphite saddles will make the guitar sound less bright than the ones made of metal.

I don't understand how graphtec saddles are suppose to add any tuning stability because the string are already locked at the saddles. There is lot of marketing talk on Graphtec website but I don't believe the hype.

I had a set of Graphtech's Floyd saddles. They suck because they break easily (they're plastic/graphite). It doesn't add anything to tuning stability. The tone didn't change (at least not that I noticed), but I had a couple of them crack from just turning the allen wrench a tad too tight when locking the string in the saddle.

[aliensporebomb]

I think you're right

Part of the problem is I bought the guitar from a store who put those heavy strings
on it as a joke thinking that nobody could play it.

When I could I learned to enjoy the playing heavier strings.

But yeah, I bet you're right.

Funnily that music store is out of business, lol.

Now to see if I can find the biz card of the luthier guy locally.....

[aliensporebomb]

Cheers

I had a set of Graphtech's Floyd saddles. They suck because they break easily (they're plastic/graphite). It doesn't add anything to tuning stability. The tone didn't change (at least not that I noticed), but I had a couple of them crack from just turning the allen wrench a tad too tight when locking the string in the saddle.

Thanks for the heads-up, I appreciate it.

Plan A is still: put the new posts in, try the Jackson trem again.

[Newc]

The USA-made "2" models came with import hardware, so putting the OFR studs/inserts in will require the holes to be widened. Otherwise, you'll bust the wood towards the trem hole. I've had a couple of guitar done that way.

Use the old inserts, replace the pivot screws themselves, put on the OFR, and enjoy. The studs have nothing to do with tone.

[Model1VH2]

If there's any concern about the posts busting through the trem cavity, I would maybe suggest adding a stabilizer bracket just for peace of mind.

http://www.guitarpartsdepot.com/product.cgi?group=15751&product=15795

btw ... the baseplates on those trems do look different IMO.
The Jackson baseplate sorta resembles a TRS trem, so you're gonna have gaps toward the rear of the baseplate. Not a big deal. I'm just say'n.

I had a dude send me a guitar once that was the opposite ...
Someone put a trem with a TRS style baseplate in a guitar that looked to be routed for an OFR.
It eventually caught on the lip of the cavity and took out a nice chunk of wood.



The paint was a pearl black and would have been pretty hard to match, so after I repaired the damage and reshaped the cavity I spoke with the guy and he decided to just let me repaint it.

[aliensporebomb]

A little analysis....

The USA-made "2" models came with import hardware, so putting the OFR studs/inserts in will require the holes to be widened. Otherwise, you'll bust the wood towards the trem hole. I've had a couple of guitar done that way.

Use the old inserts, replace the pivot screws themselves, put on the OFR, and enjoy. The studs have nothing to do with tone.

Not sure where I can obtain replacement pivot screws for the Takeuchi trem.
sources? I still think the OFR parts would be harder metal/more robust.

I took a peek again at what seems to be happening and and what's happening is
the barrel insert is rising up out of the bass-side hole for the insert.

I can actually push it back down into the hole with the trem mounted to pitch.

It's just a few millimeters but am wondering if I go to 3 springs instead of four and
look at widening those holes so I can use the OFR hardware and the Jackson trem.
I'm using .010s on the guitar presently.

If I go for the OFR trem parts I'll need to throw some money at it (well, if I widen
the holes I'll have to throw money at it anyway).

Thinking.....

[aliensporebomb]

Wow...

If there's any concern about the posts busting through the trem cavity, I would maybe suggest adding a stabilizer bracket just for peace of mind.

http://www.guitarpartsdepot.com/product.cgi?group=15751&product=15795

btw ... the baseplates on those trems do look different IMO.
The Jackson baseplate sorta resembles a TRS trem, so you're gonna have gaps toward the rear of the baseplate. Not a big deal. I'm just say'n.

I had a dude send me a guitar once that was the opposite ...
Someone put a trem with a TRS style baseplate in a guitar that looked to be routed for an OFR.
It eventually caught on the lip of the cavity and took out a nice chunk of wood.





The paint was a pearl black and would have been pretty hard to match, so after I repaired the damage and reshaped the cavity I spoke with the guy and he decided to just let me repaint it.

Really nice paintjob in that red color - stellar even! Thanks for the suggestion on
the stabilizer bracket, a good idea....

[MetalMedal II]

I took a peek again at what seems to be happening and and what's happening is
the barrel insert is rising up out of the bass-side hole for the insert.

I can actually push it back down into the hole with the trem mounted to pitch.

If the barrel insert is coming loose, u can use wood glue (trem taken off) to keep it down. Just make sure u don't glue the threaded insert into the barrel. With it loose, every time u use the bar, the trem acting as a fulcum to pull the barrel out. U can also use some teflon tape on the the threaded inserts to keep them from wiggling.

But if I were u, I'd 1st replace the studs w the OFR ones i have. IIRC, a standard 10 mm drill bit is what's needed for a good fit. Then try the original trem.

And don't wast your $$ on graphtech. The German-made OFR is the benchmark for tuning stability. The corrosion on the knife edges is nothing and won't affect stability, actually, I think it's just discoloration of the metal. But if u want to use it, u may need a shorter baseplate, like 37 mm or even 32 mm since it's recessed. The block on the OFR is 42 mmm designed for non-recessed routes.