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Bad experience with "Vector"

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  • Bad experience with "Vector"

    My apologies, I only posted this because he's now harassing and threatening me. I put a modified {by the previous owner, added D-Tuna, upgraded pickups, trem stop} slime green USA Charvel up for sale a few weeks ago for $799.00 shipped. I bought it for my son. He did not like the color. Within a day or two I put it up for sale. I did not dis-assemble the guitar before selling it. It looked, played, sounded great as it was. I described it honestly, and as it appeared to me. Jim {VECTOR} contacted me and said "Hey Bro, I definitely want the Charvel." I replied "Hi Jim, I'd prefer a deposit but I'll hold it for you as long as I don't have to chase you around." He replied in part "No need to chase me around, I want the guitar." I then proceeded to accommodate Jim so he could buy the guitar, holding it for him 2 days on his word. Six hours later I get a PM from Jim... "What model/year is that Charvel? What's the condition? Any dings, scratches or other boo-boo's? How's the fret wear? Are you the original owner?." My response was "Are you still intending to buy the guitar? I have no problem answering any questions at any time during the process, but I'm getting the feeling your backing out. Is that the case? Let me know." He replied "No. Still want the guitar. Just trying to get a handle on the item, it's condition, previous ownership etc. In short, being an informed consumer." to which I said "The reason I asked is that you committed to buying...THEN asked questions. I normally do the reverse. Just thought you might be having second thoughts or a change in finances. No problem, let me know when your ready." Jim's reply was "Guilty as charged- I'm a Madison Ave. marketing firms wet dream- I tend to "buy on sight" and not use my head." He paid me a $50.00 deposit on the 3rd day, and the balance due on the 4th day. I sent the guitar right out. Upon receipt, he had several complaints. "First, I didn't get a trem arm with the Charvel. Second- there has been some extensive modding done to the trem cavity, i.e. the guitar has 6 seperate holes drilled in it near the edge next to/in front of the trem block. Someone installed a trem stop {if you want to call it that- it's actually part of an angle bracket that some one sheared off to fit and then drilled/ screwed it in with some household screws. No telling how deep these screws go or what kind of impact that could have on the wood's structural integrity. It certainly doesn't help the value in the event of wanting to trade it. Lastly, whoever installed the DiMarzio apparently used a non-reg length screw as it protruded thru the cavity by an 1/8th of an inch and I damn near tore my hand up trying to check one of the trem springs. I gotta be honest with you, while the guitar sounds fine and plays okay, other than the rattling of the EVH Dtune whenever the trem is used {I had to take a bar off one of my other OFR equipped axes} it's not really what I thought I was buying. I'm a huge stickler for full disclosure on used guitars. I don't think their was any intentional hiding of pertinent details, as you have to be looking for the issues I discovered, it really was not adequately described either. I'd really appreciate a refund upon return." I replied... "Jim, the tremelo arm & wrench is in a USPS Priority mail envelope in the box. I never ship with that stuff in the case. Regarding the other issues... I had no idea...never looked at things that closely. I purchased the guitar for my son, send it back for a refund {minus shipping}, no problem at all. My apologies...Doug." I then followed up with an offer of a $75.00 partial refund which he declined. I then I noticed Jim posting on the forum about the guitar. This is AFTER he rejected buying it. "the sound/tone I got out of that SanDimas 2H was just pure wet dream awesome. The stock bridge pup had been replaced by a Dimarzio of unknown variety. (will check tonight before I return it) Me like." My immediate thoughts were...At this point you've rejected buying it, you've rejected a $75.00 refund offer, and in my opinion you were amateurish right out of the gate on this deal, so what right do you now have to remove the strings and remove the pickup to view underneath to benefit your own agenda? The guitar had a great set-up and I didn't want him removing the strings and pickup so he could look see what model pickup was in it. I told him he had no right to dis-assemble the guitar after he rejected purchasing it. His reply to my concerns was, get this... "As long as I did no damage or modified the guitar in any way (which I didn't) I am entitled to look at the pup. I was curious and there is no law or rule, written or otherwise, that precludes me from looking at the pup." then followed with "I apologize for removing the strings (and then putting them back on just as they were) and looking at the pick up. I assure you that no damage was done to the guitar." Also in his post he mentions "On the down side, the trem obviously has no rout & was set to dive only. Even if the trem was able to pull a little sharp (some retard had installed, rather badly, an aluminum angle bracket, sheared off to fit in the cavity, as a trem stop) it's not enough float for this Floyd junky. The other unfortunate (but not deal killing) characteristic was the 22 frets. Again, no surprise there- I knew before buying that the promod has 22. But I missed having those additional 2 frets on the SD. Love my 24 fret CS Star ( 95% of all my axes have 24) So, I've been toying with placing another cs order and maybe I need to go with a variation on the San Dimas promod- thinking San Dimas alder body, 24 jumbos on a maple quartersawn (possibly neck thru? CS will not do this at the moment), 2H config w/ Dimarzio in bridge, 59 in the neck, routed OFR, and some snazzy graphic finish, possibly snakeskin or bengal." Sounds reasonable don'tcha think? Return a used promod and in lieu of, order a CS San Dimas? & "Sadly, the clown that put the block in, also misdrilled about 6 or 7 times (or redrilled for a different positioning 3 times over- hard to tell) and the bottom of the cavity where the block attaches looks like swiss cheese. Then there's the missing 2 frets- Nah, I'm returning it - got a custom order I've just put in with Matt for an SD 1-2H with 24 frets, routed OFR, the Dimarzio/Seymour pups and a snazzy custom paint job..." Sounds to me like he regretted buying a guitar that he already knew didn't fit his type. Or he needs the cash back. He's talking all this sh*@ while my guitar is still in his possession. So, I get the guitar back today {packed sloppily, full of dried sweaty handprints and fingerprints} and as a direct result of him removing all the strings, then stringing it up poorly, the set-up is gone...it needs to be set up again. I deducted $50.00 for this, and he's throwing a hissy fit. Here's a few of the things he's said..."given your neglecting to take the time to inspect the guitar beyond a cursory topical observation at the cleanliness of it, I would have to question your judgment & findings in such a case. My brother-in-law, a lawyer and one-time district attorney agrees." & "Hope that defense holds up well in court, Doug. It'll be interesting to see how the membership on the JCF feel about this as well." & "Can't WAIT to hear how a magistrate or judge reacts to that one." & "I will NOT hesitate to recount this transaction in detail on the JCF and let the other members see what a petty and slimy person you are acting like." & "You have until midnight tonight to refund or I commence proceedings to recover my 50 bucks and to expose you as a lousy seller to avoid on JCF." & "Please, don't make me get ugly about this." And the best one of all, when I told him the guitar arrived filthy with his hand/fingerprints, his reply was... "FYI- I have a workshop in the basement that is climate controlled for temp & humidity and the likelihood of me sweating during that inspection is ZERO! Moreover, my skin type is decidedly non- greasy, leaning towards the dry side so the possibility of those being MY prints are slim-to-none." Who can argue with that logic, eh? Jim is so perfect, he doesn't even sweat AND he's "non-greasy"! To sum up, I have bought, sold, and traded guitars for 35 years. I have nearly 2,000 pos. ebay feedbacks {dan-electro}. I have a stellar reputation for buying, selling, & trading guitars. I am considered a world authority on Danelectro's and wrote two books on the subject. I do not need to steal $50.00 by being dishonest. My reputation is important to me. Despite the fact I thought Jim at a minimum, shared equal responsibility over these "undisclosed" issues, I immediately offered two remedies... Both to his benefit. A full refund {minus shipping}, or a partial $75.00 refund. On the other hand, I am not going to be sh#& on by Jim. So, he got a full refund minus shipping and minus $50.00 for my time/trouble to re-set this guitar up. Sure, I certainly could have dis-assembled the entire instrument and gave a more accurate description, but I didn't. Neither did I defraud him. He could have asked anything prior to buying it. I answered EVERY question he asked, I accomodated the hell out of him, that's it. Jim needs to take responsibility for himself. Clearly he buys first, and asks questions later. That's kids stuff, he's a grown man and I'm no babysitter for grown men who buy then ask questions after the fact. I was truthful and honorable in my dealings with Jim. BOTTOM LINE: Based on his removing the strings to see what pickup was in it AFTER he declined purchase, the guitar now needs a set-up. Simple... I'm keeping $50.00 for that. I've included a couple of photos of the cavity and the guitar...
    Last edited by Mr Graphic; 02-09-2012, 07:22 AM.

  • #2
    man..dude....paragraphs please, for the love of god dude....
    -Now....shut up n play yer guitar

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    • #3
      What's a Vector..?
      "Bill, Smoke a Bowl and Crank Van Halen I, Life is better when I do that"
      Donnie Swanstrom 01/25/06..miss ya!

      "Well, your friend would have Bell's Palsy, which is a facial paralysis, not "Balls Pelsy" like we're joking about here." Toejam's attempt at sensitivity.

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      • #4
        EDIT; My bad.
        Last edited by Twitch; 02-08-2012, 05:10 PM. Reason: no sense of humor, tight buns, etc.
        HTTP 404 - Signature Not Found

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Twitch View Post
          A line with an arrow, showing both direction AND magnitude. Oh yeeeah!!
          Can you go play in your own thread please. This is not a joke. Thanks...

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          • #6
            What's wrong with the cavity? Any guitar with a D-Tuna will need to be blocked to function properly. And even if there was no D-Tuna, these Charvels don't have much room to pull up when they're floating, anyway.
            I feel my soul go cold... only the dead are smiling.

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            • #7
              I wouldn't have freaked out about that angle, just removed it. Good luck dude

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              • #8
                Just put a Marshmallow Peep in the trem cavity..I do that with all my floyds!

                They make green Peeps for St. Patty's day!
                "Bill, Smoke a Bowl and Crank Van Halen I, Life is better when I do that"
                Donnie Swanstrom 01/25/06..miss ya!

                "Well, your friend would have Bell's Palsy, which is a facial paralysis, not "Balls Pelsy" like we're joking about here." Toejam's attempt at sensitivity.

                Comment


                • #9
                  wow, you can see how the structural integrity of the wood may have been compromised.

                  I can't believe he actually pulled out the "my dad owns a gun" (sorry, the "My brother-in-law, a lawyer and one-time district attorney agrees" and the "Hope that defense holds up well in court") defensive tactic. I wonder if the brother-in-law would stake his professional reputation on this quibble over $50 and how much information he has even received to reach agreement.
                  Hail yesterday

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                  • #10
                    I think I have a headache after trying to read one giant 10,000 word paragraph, but here's my take:

                    1. Vector does appear to be an amateur and I'll probably avoid. That said, if a buyer starts jerking around like he did, then the plug probably should have been pulled before the deal went through. But it's a tough market and I can understand how sellers are more prone to put up with that kind of crap in hopes of selling something.

                    2. The holes in the trem cavity would bug me a little and disclosure in the for sale ad would have been nice, but at the same time I realize that not everybody takes their guitars apart and scrutinizes them. With that said, this isn't a vintage guitar. If I liked everything else about the guitar, a price adjustment would likely be satisfactory if buyer/seller can agree on an amount.

                    3. How does a setup get destroyed simply by removing the strings and checking out a pickup? Only thing that might be required is a slight tweak to the trem post heights if he bumped those in the process. If the truss rod needs adjustment that could simply be from transit. No way to prove he messed with that.

                    In summary, if he's okay with a refund less shipping, then do that and move on. My opinion.

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                    • #11
                      Oh and telling you he's going to fund a custom shop order with the refund from this guitar? Extremely bad form. He's an amateur alright.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chad View Post
                        I think I have a headache after trying to read one giant 10,000 word paragraph, Sorry about that but here's my take:

                        1. Vector does appear to be an amateur and I'll probably avoid. That said, if a buyer starts jerking around like he did, then the plug probably should have been pulled before the deal went through. But it's a tough market and I can understand how sellers are more prone to put up with that kind of crap in hopes of selling something.

                        2. The holes in the trem cavity would bug me a little and disclosure in the for sale ad would have been nice, but at the same time I realize that not everybody takes their guitars apart and scrutinizes them. With that said, this isn't a vintage guitar. If I liked everything else about the guitar, a price adjustment would likely be satisfactory if buyer/seller can agree on an amount.

                        3. How does a setup get destroyed simply by removing the strings and checking out a pickup?Only thing that might be required is a slight tweak to the trem post heights if he bumped those in the process. If the truss rod needs adjustment that could simply be from transit. No way to prove he messed with that.

                        In summary, if he's okay with a refund less shipping, then do that and move on. My opinion.
                        That's exactly what I did. Regarding having to re-do the set-up..It didn't get "destroyed", just put it out of whack so it's necessary to re-do the set-up. It was set up nicely, and in tune when I packed it. I got it back in awful playing condition. Who knows what else he did. Not a big deal, but I still have to do it.
                        Last edited by Mr Graphic; 02-08-2012, 07:48 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mr Graphic View Post
                          Too late, I have the guitar back as he had already rejected the $75.00 refund I offered.
                          Then, if agreeable between you two, refund his money less shipping and move on. That's my opinion.

                          Regarding having to re-do the set-up..It didn't get "destroyed", just put it out of whack so it's necessary to re-do the set-up. Not a big deal, but I still have to do it.
                          I hear you, but when buying/selling guitars through the mail, setups aren't guaranteed. Some sellers on Ebay even put that disclaimer in their listings. That same thing would apply to a returned guitar as well. If you are familiar with Floyds that shouldn't take very long at all.

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                          • #14
                            I can live with being labelled an amateur but I can't abide by folks not honoring their word. A full refund was offered and accepted and then OP deducted 50 bucks because the strings were not returned to E 440, i.e. "awful playing condition" before shipping. I have received & shipped numerous guitars with string tension lessened to minimize stress on the neck. Never made/had any requests for set ups because of that. How does returning the strings to standard tuning warrant a 50 dollar set up? The guitar was returned exactly as it was received (yes, it arrived to me, out of tune as well ) and I've heard a laundry list of superfluous reasons why he feels he is justified in withholding 50 bucks of my refund. Man up and refund the rest, Mr. Graphic.
                            Last edited by vector; 02-09-2012, 09:27 AM.

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                            • #15
                              My only question is..... If Vector had no intention on keeping the guitar why take it apart (or, whatever was done to it)? At all?...or...did he need to take it apart to decide he didn't want it? either way..thats seems a little odd to me. If the guitar wasn't as he expected, I would have thought it would just be returned....end of story....I could be wrong. Maybe it doesn't even matter.....

                              Dude, if you said you'd refund his money you should refund his money....even though maybe Vector made a dick move.
                              Last edited by dvscool; 02-09-2012, 10:06 AM.
                              -Now....shut up n play yer guitar

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