DIRTY RAT

[~K~]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Dana ... that you SD-3 boy?

[charvel750]

Re: DIRTY RAT

I said I wouldn't post anymore on this nightmare, but since the thread was moved it's a new topic I guess.

First, I'm not going to back off my initial stance on all of this. But I will say that if you disagree with me, I'm cool with that, and I respect your opinions and thoughts. I don't dislike anyone, I'm a lova, not a fighta.

I'll conclude with one thing: NO ONE will ever feel comfy owning J1296,the Gun Metal Grey (Ice Blue in the books) San Dimas King V with original Floyd, dual hums, 22 frets. Too bad, it would have so nicely matched my SD Ice Blue Soloist. And, despite what a lot of you think, I wasn't going to turn it for a $, it was being purchased to play, how could anyone not do that?! Sad thing is, if that guitar surfaces here, it will be a sad day on the JCF. Everyone just lost on a cool axe that is now forever tainted.

[RP]

Re: DIRTY RAT

I hear that you can sometimes get the taint off with a soft cloth.

[~K~]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Joe,

I'm not looking to put a knife in your back and to be honest I don't appreciate the fact that I'm not entitled to my opinion as you are yours. The fact is your so blinded by the screwjob your not being open to understanding an outside point of view. My point is that if your seller took your money and then decided not to sell you the guitar.. .your seller is your rat .. the only way it would be the other guy would be if he tried to screw your deal so you couldn't have it .. if he offered more money to your seller irregardless if it was b4 or after he took your cash .. he is your rat for being greedy.

You opened up a discussion here and are feeling slighted because not every post is a lets lynch the guy who screwed you I agree with you point of view.

Lets look at Brett's bad deal.. he finished an auction on a BIN and then someone told the seller it was worth more.. who was the rat there? The seller and the guy who killed the deal. Why ..because it was a completed auction, the moeny was agreed to and sent ...

You say my "back door" attitude is a moot point .. it really isn't .. it is lawless territory and happens a lot here. There are a lot of people who look down on it.. Myself included yet we are treated like we should learn how to play with the big boys. It's too bad we all can't have a higher moral standard of how we conduct ourselves within this community. It should be a brotherhood as we are all here for the same reason yet there are no rules in collecting or no honor among thieves.

Joe... don't take it as a shot at you but as an outside point of view that you don't want to hear .. it wasn't intended as a shot at you .....

Hope you get your cash back ...
Kev

[brett8388]

Re: DIRTY RAT

No one hopes Joe gets his cash back more than I, and I also hope he gets his guitar so I can buy it from him if he decides to sell it. I made an error in judgement from getting in a hurry to contact Joe when I was told he was the buyer, but I should not be lynched for that. The seller is an ass for not standing by his word, but backdoor deals can sometimes go badly. I have a white Shannon Soloist right here that reminds me daily of a bad backdoor deal. You know how many times I've played that guitar? NONE! I HATE IT over the crap I went through to get it. Sometimes getting what you want sucks too.

Brett

[Guest]

Re: DIRTY RAT

no one has even mentioned that the seller might have just been out to rip someone off.it does happen.super guitar with no reserve and willing to stop the auction to take your money.he has a 0 feedback rating maybe he set up a new account just to rip off people.i think thats what happened.i'd be screaming about him ripping me off before i'd be freaking out about a rat.
everybody here is to quick to scream about someone in this forum being a rat ruining their deal.

ya it does suck that this happened to ya, but you got ripped man.call the law and deal with it that way .talking about it here isnt helping you get your money back or getting the guitar (if he really has it).

IMO i think backdooring is all right, i mean alls fair in love and war . right?

[jgcable]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Joe, could you have possibly mentioned the JCF board to the seller in your hour long conversation while you were setting up his Paypal account? If so, maybe he cruised our message board and found out how much his guitar was actually worth. This site certainly has lots of information regarding value of guitars. If he didn't get the info here than maybe the JCF site sparked his interest and he found the Charvel site. There are lots of information on that model guitar online. If thats the case the only rat is the seller. I have dealt with Brett on occasion and I agree with his statement that he just doesn't throw out offers without serious information on what he is interested in. Of course I hope you get your money back. Paypal should be able to help you but I am sure they won't be pleased since you backdoor'd the sale and they are owned by Ebay.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: DIRTY RAT

I agree with Joe...the seller agreed on a price...the money was sent by Joe and received by the seller...this is a done deal regardless of all the other circumstances that transpired.

I agree with Kev on his statements of no brotherhood. I have witnessed some so called friends do some low life backstabbing just to get a guitar.

I'm one who doesn't agree with backdooring deals...if you want the fuggin thing snipe it in the last second and pay whatever you think you can.

[toejam]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Jeez, kinda makes me glad I only own import Jacksons and Charvels. [img]graemlins/fart.gif[/img]

[dinkyjacksonman]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Maybe the seller doesn't even know how to refund the money since he is new to paypal.
He must have no idea what he is doing with it.

[metalchuck]

Re: DIRTY RAT

I saw that one on ebay and i emailed the seller and asked about the route behind the floyd he said it used to have a Kahler on it

[Newc]

Re: DIRTY RAT

I used to not like seeing guitars backdoored - I too thought everyone should ride the auction out to the end, and put their best bid out there.
Then I saw a guitar I had been wanting for a very long time (before the Roswell) and gave it a shot.
Turned out I didn't really want the guitar bad enough to pay an arm and a leg for it, or engage in a bidding war for it, so I sold it for less than I paid (forget which one - there've been sooooo many [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] )
Anyhoo, it's one thing to say "well, then, only bid on something you KNOW you'll want to keep". Uhhhhhh yeah. I've just recently completed a collection idea that I had, where I now have one of every model Jackson (with a few exceptions). I have a Kelly, Warrior, King V, Rhoads, Soloist, and a Dinky. I've had Fusions and a Firebird. The only ones I haven't had are the Y2KV, Stealth, JJ, and Phil Collen. However, I did not have one of every model back when I "should have" only bid on guitars I knew I wanted to keep - there's really no such thing. You just don't know until you get it whether you want it that bad.
I've always wanted a Double Rhoads. If I ever get one, I may find I really don't want it for whatever reason.
I'd like to order a Custom Shop, but would I really keep it? Maybe, maybe not.
So yes, backdooring a guitar to get it more cheaply is a good thing, whether you turn it around for $$ or not.
BUT, backdooring someone who's backdoored AFTER the money was paid is a bad thing, because once money has changed hands, the deal is considered done. Even if the seller had refunded Joe's money promptly, it's still a dirty thing to do.
But then again, if the second party didn't know the seller had already received Joe's money, then the blame totally rests on the seller.

Newc

[xenophobe]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Wow... it took a seriously long time to read this post... just found this section.

Very contradictory...

I'm a fan of backdooring auctions. Although I've only done this ONCE on a guitar (which happens to be up on ebay for a serious loss), if it's something you HAVE to have, go for it, or you might not get it.

When you pay someone and the funds are in their control, a deal has been done.

When a seller ends an auction early without a legitimate completed auction buyer, all rules of fairness have been thrown out.

Sorry to hear about YOUR guitar Joe. That just sucks...

In conclusion, the guitar was probably sold to someone who may or may not have known about Joe backdooring it, and who knows when or why... probably didn't know it was already paid for, and the seller was obviously more interested in money.

Whoever got the guitar, did what they had to do to get it. Hats off to them. They are not the rat. The seller is for accepting funds and calling it a deal, then changing his mind after accepting payment.

That is about all I can say, except for, no I didn't get the guitar. Saw it, not my thing, besides I already have a custom KV in black. Much much superior technologies.

[fritzreiser]

Re: DIRTY RAT

This business of Joe being in a lawless no man's land when he backdoored the guitar is [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img]

Joe made an offer, the seller accepted and there was valid consideration (the guitar & the money), thus, this is a valid, ENFORCEABLE contract. So, if the seller breaks the contract, Joe could sue him for breach of contract. If he keeps JOE's money that he willfully ACCEPTED, then it becomes a criminal case. Pretty cut and dry.

This whole issue of backdooring is also pretty clear. The seller had something up for auction. Joe made an offer to him OUTSIDE OF EBAY, the seller accepted and by doing so, decided to pull his item off of eBay. That is why eBay has an option to cancel which says "item is not for sale anymore".

The SELLER made the decision to pull his guitar off eBay. The SELLER accepted an offer to sell his guitar. The SELLER breached the contract he made with Joe. How is Joe in the wrong, here?

[~K~]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Key word = Seller