DIRTY RAT

[Wayniac]

Re: DIRTY RAT

That sucks Joe. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] I hope you get what is yours - it is legal and binding ! And I hope the Rat gets what's his (hers??)!! [img]graemlins/evilimages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
Dunno how many of you have dealt with Joe, but he is GREAT to deal with ...

[kremit]

Re: DIRTY RAT

[img]graemlins/brow.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: DIRTY RAT

While a backdoor deal is not protected under Ebay, it is protected under PayPal (IIRC), and in most states, money changing hands in exchange for merchandise or service means a contract - if the merch or service is not delivered to the customer in a reasonable amount of time, or the money refunded AT THE CUSTOMER'S REQUEST, you have the right to sue for breach of contract.

I agree with Tekky - expose the rat and he does it to everyone out of spite. But then, the stupid fukk should be exposed so we can find out where he lives and stomp his dick in the dirt.
Let's see how he'd like it if an anonymous donation was made to some anonymous people who would bust in his front door and go at his guitars with a fire axe.

Ignorant pissdrinker. If you don't like backdoor deals, DON'T PARTICIPATE! Now not even the stupid rat will be able to afford it.
NO ONE has "the right" to receive the full collector value of anything if they don't know what it is. NO ONE is "entitled" to know they are selling a $3000 axe for way too little. If they don't know, that's their loss. I felt almost no pity for the guy who I got my USA Roswell from - he got a quote of $500 to repair the neck, I got a NOS replacement neck for $350 - the difference? His tough sh!t, my good sense to know to ask around.

Newc

[Greg Crowe]

Re: DIRTY RAT

I'm about the most aggressive rat hater out here. I've had it done to me multiple times and I'm all for breaking out the Sully nut noose on these people. However....... this deal is a little different. The auction didn't end as a "completed auction" through eBay. The seller ended it early on his own accord. Reporting to eBay would be a waste of time. eBay couldn't do a damn thing to the seller on this one.

Joe, do you even know if the other person might have been in talks with the seller at the same time you were? The auction was up for 3 days! Surely someone else was in talks with the guy. I had the exact same thing happen to me with a USA Dean, seller closed the auction down early, agreed to sell to me, was in contact with a 2nd person, went back and forth and eventually told me tough luck even though I offered more and was the original contact. There wasn't anything I could do. The other guy was a fellow Dean Forum member. I just emailed him and told him congratulations but I thought it sucked since I was the one who got the auction closed down and was originally going to buy it.

Yes, I think this one really sucks the big one. If you came to an agreement and PayPal'd him the money, it should be a done deal. Sounds like the seller is just being an ass but I don't think there's much you can do. The eBay auction now states: "The seller ended this listing early because the item is no longer available for sale." Sorry man. While this guy is certainly a rat, he's nowhere near as dirty as someone who tries to kill a completed eBay auction. He may not have known that you had even paid for the guitar.

For the record: Hadn't even seen that guitar, not the rat.

[mm2002]

Re: DIRTY RAT

I would say that the JCFer who congratulated you is the RAT. He was probably trying to cover his ass but his plan wasn't very well thought out. He probably figured that if he emailed you with a "congrats" you wouldn't suspect him but he didn't think about the "how did he know?" part of it. I'd email him back and ask him exactly how he found out that YOU bought the guitar.
I know it's not your style Joe, but it's time to be an asshole! Good luck bro.

[skidd]

Re: DIRTY RAT

This is why backdoor deals suck.

[charvel750]

Re: DIRTY RAT

mm, you have said exactly what I'd been thinking. He who smelt it dealt it. [img]graemlins/fart.gif[/img]

Back door schmak door. I paid the guy for the axe, and then, after he had my money, he backs out of the sale. Some jealous little Ph*&k got angry and tried to convice the seller to forfeit the sale.

[brett8388]

Re: DIRTY RAT

I’ve watched this thread from the beginning, and before the lynch mob gathers any more momentum, I’ll come clean. I’m the one who congratulated Joe. Yes, I CONGRATULATED JOE . I did this to get my foot in the door with him towards me purchasing this guitar from HIM, if he decided to sell it (he is an ebay Power seller after all, and has an ebay store with lots of Jacksons for sale). I did not do this to cover my ass, as someone here stated. Here’s the deal…

I was on this one from the beginning, as I’m sure a few people were. A KV-2 for $450 with no reserve SHOULD be watched, and its small minded to believe only Joe and I knew about this guitar! It was obviously a San Dimas, but I believed that the Floyd had been recessed (look closely at the picts). I emailed the seller from the beginning, but never got a response to any of my inquiries. Still, I thought I’d try to snipe since it had no bids as of 6:00PM Saturday or so, and for $500 (my intended opening bid) I was willing to take a chance. When I was about to enter my opening bid, the auction ended.

I emailed the seller one more time and asked what happened, and I actually got a response this time. He said he sold it to a guy in Florida – he volunteered the location info – I did not ask. I know of TWO COLLECTORS in Florida, and both are friends of mine, and I emailed him back with the name of my first guess (a guy that owes me a favor. If he got it, I’d be able to buy it from him without a problem). The seller said “no, Joe in Florida got it” or something like that. THAT IS THE ONLY OTHER COLLECTOR IN FLORIDA I KNOW, so I emailed Joe to congratulate him, and also to get my foot in the door towards buying it off Joe. The J/C community is pretty small, and I felt that I had a 90% chance of being right by guessing “Joe in Florida” was Charvel750. Turns out I was right, but in hindsight this was a bad decision. Now I find myself defending my idea to contact a forum member about a guitar I wanted to buy of said forum member.

I made no offers to the seller nor to Joe – NOT ONE (keep reading though). If you’ve ever sold to me before, you know I never make blind offers on anything without good picts, details, serial numbers, etc. - I had none of this info on that V. I also never estimated the worth of the guitar to anyone either because I could not tell if it was mod’d or not. As I told Joe last night – I could care less if he got it for 50 cents or $1000 – I wanted to talk to him about it when he received it, and I expressed my interest in my “congratulations” email. If the Floyd was recessed as I thought, I would not want it at any price. If it was an original, un-modded SD KV, I was going to make Joe a serious cash offer on it to mull over once he received the guitar.

For instance...when I finally won the Charvel V, I received no less than 9 “congratulations” emails which contained offers of trades, cash, and “dibs” requests. I never once equated anyone that emailed me as being the rat in my deal. To this day, I’ve never accused anyone over that mess because I have no proof.

How this has all gotten twisted into me ruining Joe’s deal is a reach at best, and I think Joe is benefiting from the fact that the rat in my deal was never uncovered.

I was on the IM with Joe for 1 hour last night defending myself (I even told Joe that I feel like I’m having to defending myself, and that sucks). I answered every question he had immediately and honestly. He told me that to help him out, I needed to make an offer on the guitar! Joe sent me the seller’s IM name, told me he was online, and I did make the offer Joe approved and TOLD ME TO MAKE. I never got a response from the seller to my offer. AGAIN, JOE TOLD ME TO MAKE THIS OFFER TO THE SELLER, which I did to help a JCF’er out AND to prove my innocence in this matter. My only concern, and I expressed this to Joe, was the seller accepting my offer, since it was WAY more than I wanted to bid. My offer was ignored.

Joe and I talked a little more after this offer was made and ignored, and I assumed that he was going to come here and explain what happened, but I have not seen a post about that. I gave up an evening of boning a first class Men’s Club hottie to talk with Joe to clear this up – that should say something about how serious I’m taking this. Joe, if you still don't believe me, then there's nothing more I can do to prove myself to you. I've given this matter a lot of thought and time.

Believe me, I know all about getting backdoor’d – it happens all the time on ebay. Joe backdoor’d the auction, and someone backdoor’d him, but that “someone” was not me.

I have copies of all my emails to the seller if anyone is interested in reading them.

[email protected]

[~K~]

Re: DIRTY RAT

if you backdoor it you open yourself up to being backdoored. If this guy in fact backdorred the guitar your issue is with the seller. If the guy just killed your sale because it was cheap then your issue is with said rat. People can't make a habit of backdooring deals and then getting upset because they got backdoored. It is a lawless area.. provided you get your cash back .. If this was a completed auction then you have every reason to feel cheated ..it all depends on circumstance here ....

[charvel750]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Kev, you fail to see my point. Regardless of it being backdoored or not, the seller HAD/HAS my money. That means done deal. Who cares how the deal got done, it's completed, right? Once it's completed and you forfeit the sale, well that's just diry and ratty. What's so hard to see about it?

[~K~]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Again then your issue is with the seller unless the rat deliberatly tried to just kill your deal ..that's my point. Look .. If you win a guitar at $450 and I had emailed an offer of a grand and the seller took it who is wrong for killing the first transaction? .. it happens here all the time and as much as I hate it, it has become part of the game. I trust very few people within this community and when I know where things are for sale will rarely ever say a word because there is no brotherhood among collectors .. it's sad because my belief of both the JCF and CC was that we were to look out for each other ... it does not happen. I hope the guy at the least gives you your money back.. you have every right to be pissed at him under these circumstances ..

with that said I was watching this auction to throw a bid in towards the end.. but someone back doored it ..was it fair to me?.. I played by the rules .. I've just come to accept it's part of the nastiness in this community. ..


B4 I get accussed .. I'm not the rat either ..

[Tekky]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Well said Kev!

[charvel750]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Todd, of course it was "well said, Kev!" Because you too fail to see my point. Forget about how the guitar was purchased (which in itself is not a big deal, so get over it). Instead, focus on this: the guitar was paid for. The seller had my money in his hands. THEN, and only then, did the deal go south.

What's so hard to see about that? If I had only emailed him and offered him $450 for it and he emailed me back and said "no sale" I'd have been fine with it. But it wasn't that GUYS! WAKE UP! He already had my money, the deal was done, the cash was in hand. What's so hard to see about that?

Playing the "backdooring is unethical" card is moot here. That does not matter, it's irrevelant. Hello? Is there anybody out there?

[Tekky]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Actually Joe, I think you fail to see mine and Kev's point.

We don't see the need to backdoor deals. That's what the acution is for. If you have the money to pay for the guitar, why not stick with the auction and keep things fair for everyone who also may have the money for the guitar and decide to follow through with the auction.

I sympathise with your plight, but I think backdooring deals is unscrupulous. This whole situation is more or less one unseeming turn after another. Maybe it's karma Joe...

[charvel750]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Your points are not the topic of discussion here in this thread. If I pay someone for something and they have my $ in their hands, the merchandise IS SOLD. Now, who here on the board besides Kev and Todd is going to say otherwise to that? Or will you delete this thread, Kev/Todd? Cash in hand means you deliver said merchandise. Fair is fair, gentlemen. I will not add another word to this discussion in this thread because I have explained my side entirely.