Why you never deal with Strangletooth...!

[hippietim]

Hi Pat! Stick around.

+1

[Firebird V]

Hi Pat! Stick around.

[Shawn]

If I was having that much trouble with a buyer, I would have sent the money back long ago, towards the beginning, and been done with it. Lesson learned, never sell to them again. Done. They dont get the guitar they want, I dont get any further hassle.

Sure seems more logical.

[Mayday]

Well Kevin, your experience really changes the scenario. Not about what happened to the guitar, but it sure justifies Pat's anger about being jacked around on shipping. I don't know what to think now, but I reckon I owe you and Pat an apology for assuming, so I do apologize for that. I really don't know what to think about this now.

It's a crying shame about the guitar, of that there's no doubt.

Thank you Rich,

That is why I continually state "people don't know what goes on behind the scenes" I've done my best to stay out of the whole thing and what I've posted wasn't an intent to shed light on other party negatively ..all it is was from my own experience. I was amazed that I had been trusted for so long for that amount for money and no delivery of the guitar.

[lerxstcat]

Well Kevin, your experience really changes the scenario. Not about what happened to the guitar, but it sure justifies Pat's anger about being jacked around on shipping. I don't know what to think now, but I reckon I owe you and Pat an apology for assuming, so I do apologize for that. I really don't know what to think about this now.

It's a crying shame about the guitar, of that there's no doubt.

[1trussell]

So, this is the first I've read about all of this. I've not been very active on the boards due to increased time spent at school/clinic.

I will not comment on this situation as it seems to me to be a he said, she said kind of deal.

I will say this, though. Pat offered to loan me his JCF01 and PCS Rhoads for a weekend because I had asked him about the neck profiles on each. That's a cool thing to do with a couple of really nice guitars. I've been to Pat's house and was treated with incredible hospitality. Pat has been nothing but nice to me and I regret seeing anyone in this situation.

I have nothing else to add except, go Bears.

Travis

[Strangletooth]

Thanx for sharing Kevin. I knew it took a lot to post this and I for one, appreciate it. I didn't want to call you out on this and it could have been ignored, it wouldn't have hurt my feelings one way or another. Obviously I knew that at least you had basically the same experience as I did with the shipping madness.

No matter how mad I've ever been over this or anything I've "ever" been mad about, I'd never destroy any guitar, ESPECIALLY THIS ONE! As I for one know what you guys went through, you and especially Kurt and Sully, not to mention Robin's last breath's and the joy it brought him in the hospital, I saw the pics, I read the notes, etc.

And as many of you know, it's not my style, never has been, never will be...

I'm about done with this thread, I'm just waiting on a response from Ian...

Go Saints and Go Indy!!!

Pat

[Mayday]

Who else sold Ian a BR? And how long did you have to wait for shipping it so he could sneak it past his wife? I guess Mr Lee thinks we're all his personal storage facilities?

I swore I wouldn't get in the middle but I do have to be honest in this. I sold him a BigRed .. originally I was asked for a few weeks to make the payments over. Let me start by saying when he did say money was on the way it was there. It was always a few weeks after he would let me know but it showed up. He had asked for 3 weeks to pay me originally because he had to move some things around. He was in process of buying a BR from another JCFer and asked them to wait to buy mine because I wanted to be rid of the whole mess.

IIRC He paid a deposit right aways but he didn't pay it in 3 weeks. It dragged on about 6 months but I figured I had the deposit and I had the guitar so the control was in my favor either way I could have demanded payment if I needed it or sent back and sold it.

After he finally made the last payment he wanted me "hold" the guitar because he wanted me to drive it out to his house and spend the weekend. Anyone who knows me personally knows that I have been through hell and back twice with my daughter in the last 2 years plus some of my own stuff going on. There was no way I could make time to drive it and at one point asked Chuck E to deliver it on a trip he was planning out to LI to see Monte which never happened.

I kept asking for Ian to take delivery and he wouldn't. I was aware he had a lot of these coming in. Early on in the deal he had a personal issue with his wife over buying the guitar and said he had to back out. He ended up changing his mind and continuing on with the deal.

over a year went buy when we finally narrowed it down that he was going to have the guitar picked up. The deal Ian and I worked out had Ian to a call for on FedEx. I had the same issue with false pickups, wrong tracking numbers etc on several occasions. The difference in my deal was that I was drop shipping from work and we knew the drivers. When I would ask about a call tag or whatever he was the one that told me none was ever issued. Eventually I got Ian's FedEx account # and I reverse shipped it on my own.

The deal was completed in an honest manner but it certainly was a long drawn out process.

When Pat had his issue I had 2 people I considered very good friends tugging me in both directions over the deal. I had Pat who has always been a good friend asking me about my experience with my deal and I had Ian mad at me for not doing something to help him. Eventually word got back to me that I was being accused for helping Pat screw Ian and I sent a pissed off email telling Ian I was done not to bother me anymore.

This was a no win deal for me on either side because both these people IMO were upstanding and good friends over the years. For me to get involved meant having one feel like I was playing sides. With all that was going on in my own personal life I felt it better to remain impartial and deal with my personal life and not get involved in what I felt was added salt to my already large BigRed wounds.

I'm very unhappy to see the guitar trashed it ripped my heart out as can be seen in a previous post. Sully and I worked very hard to make that guitar a reality and live up to what was promised to Robbin but it ended up being a clusterfuck... it was hard to see this happen on top of that.

I don't believe either party has it in them to be so vindictive to destroy a guitar to prove a point and it would hurt me even more if that was the case so that part of the story I refuse to touch.

In some instance I am very regretful for not trying to help diffuse this when it started and for that I apologize ....

[Strangletooth]

Occam's razor.

That kind of damage doesnt happen in shipping. Not scratches and scrapes going UP the wings.

Either you did it, or Ian did it. Truth is, we'll never know, so it doesnt really matter. Looks to me like it was handled like shit on both ends.

Too bad, its a special guitar. Why did you sell it in the first place?

No comment on the shipping issue?!?

Well, explain to me what part I had in it was "handled like shit?" I went way over and beyond for this tool... Packing? Well, I believe you have a BR, did it have packing in it? Or was there even room for it with the box? I don't recall seeing any when I got mine, but I could be mistaken, it's been what, 2 yrs or so now? I've seen way too many things happen in shipping, packing under/around the headstock = Snapped neck, those cases are pretty durable and form fitting so I didn't hesitate shipping it the same way it was safely shipped to me.

I sold most of my axe's at the time, didn't need 60+ , so I cleaned house. The majority of the funds raised from the fire sale were used to build a new network. I kept a few guitars and that was it. Not that it's any of anyone's business, but it was public knowledge at the time...

Who else sold Ian a BR? And how long did you have to wait for shipping it so he could sneak it past his wife? I guess Mr Lee thinks we're all his personal storage facilities?

I will say this, had it been ANY other guitar, well almost any other, very few would fit this category, but it would have sat on the porch from the 2nd time he allegedly scheduled a pickup and neglected to inform me he didn't, but instead expects someone to wait around for nothing. I'll give someone once, maybe twice as shit does happen, but 7 times?!?!?

Pat

[Shawn]

Edited, its none of my business. Sorry.

[Strangletooth]

Pat, nice seeing you but how is it dicking your around if you have his money? Seriously, how hard is it to get the guys address, ship on his account number and have it picked up at you place of business as to not waste valuable time waiting around for a FedEx truck to show up at your house? That would be maybe a 2 day process? You could have also just given the guy a refund and relisted the guitar to a less hasstled buyer no? That is why I'm having a hard understanding. I'm glad you came back to tell your side of the story.

I'd like to see Ian responses to Pats posts.

What is now obvious is someone is not telling the truth here...who is it???

For anyone who has to "sneak" gear past their wives....grow a pair would ya or find a different wife.

Shawn,

Good to see you to...

This was on his dime, and the thing was that he told me countless times that FedEx would be here, but the truth of the matter is that he never scheduled the pickups. And why can't I just leave it at my office? Because I never go to my office, I'm at home or at another office 3hrs away. I never know what the day will bring for me, I don't go somewhere at 8am and clock out at 4 and go home. You, I believe know this...

And keep in mind, it was his idea the entire time to wait for shipping, he had to sneak it past his wife, I've got a dozen or more emails regarding this. So when you ask how he was dicking me around when I had the money, it was HIS choice for all of it... It's always Ian's world and if you don't live under Ian's rules and request, apparently, this is what happens...

What pissed me off the most were the phantom pickups that never happened, even AFTER he got the Police involved, which I didn't mind a bit, I have a positive relationship with the Glen Carbon police, except they won't stop the freakin people speeding through my neighborhood every day.

The last pickup he supposedly scheduled was in Dec, he sent myself and the officer involved a tracking number that DID NOT EXSIST! And like a fool, I didn't check it on FedEx's site before sitting home yet another day... I thought since he got the police involved, a scheduled pickup would finally happen...

Tell me Shawn, if the tables were turned, how many times would you tolerate it? Hey Shawn, I scheduled a pickup for next Tuesday between 9 and 2, make sure someone's there please... No problem, Tuesday comes and no FedEx? Oh sorry Shawn, I forgot to schedule it, let's try again for next Monday, Monday comes, nope, no FedEx... Once, "maybe" 6 or 7 times?!?!? Are you feelin me yet? Fuck that....

The bottom line to this deal is simple, but I have no explanation for it, but I did NOT trash that guitar!!! And for those of you that know me, know I wouldn't... How many killer guitars have I owned in the past? Perhaps I knew something when I told him he didn't deserve this thing 8-9 months ago, I don't know...

Just his whole attitude towards the entire thing from the word go... These guitars and all guitars are just pieces to him, he doesn't care about them, it's all about how he looks to the next guy, yeh know, stroke me please, I have all these killer guitars...

Unlike some other collectors, he doesn't have the mentality for it... It's an ego trip, period, plain and simple...

Peace...
Pat

[Shawn Lutz]

Pat, nice seeing you but how is it dicking your around if you have his money? Seriously, how hard is it to get the guys address, ship on his account number and have it picked up at you place of business as to not waste valuable time waiting around for a FedEx truck to show up at your house? That would be maybe a 2 day process? You could have also just given the guy a refund and relisted the guitar to a less hasstled buyer no? That is why I'm having a hard understanding. I'm glad you came back to tell your side of the story.

I'd like to see Ian responses to Pats posts.

What is now obvious is someone is not telling the truth here...who is it???

For anyone who has to "sneak" gear past their wives....grow a pair would ya or find a different wife.

[Newc]

Lord, no. Sold them both soon afterwards for soem reason. Raising money for JCF-01 or 02 IIRC.
Sold those as well

[Strangletooth]

Hey Newc! Good to see ya!!!

It wasn't the V, that went to Tom Diamond, as far as I know, he still has it...

I'm certainly glad that you finally have those 2 together, do you have both or?

Pat

[Newc]

Yeah, Pat, time doesn't advance on the JCF - the kids just never get older around here. It's like NeverNeverLand

And you HAD to mention the Tim Rose Dragon thing!? Took me what, almost a year to get those necks back where they belonged?

Or was that about your Dragon V? :scratch: