Bergsheil - Difficult to Deal With

[Spivonious]

I fixed your post for you...
FYI ... your shit stinks....since you didn't know that.

Actually I did know that...there you go acting like a pissy 14 year-old again. Btw, how old are you? If I had to guess by your vocabulary and ability to be easily excited, I'd say no older than 16.

Tekky: great response!

edit: The way you're acting is NOT helping your case at all Hailing of Castles.

[shobet]

It's now a major pissing contest.
I'm going to get an umbrella...

[dg]

Shobet says it well. Not taking sides here, but I can see how if I agreed to go out of my way to accomodate somebody, I might get pissed off if they responded to my show of good faith with a show of distrust. Not saying Pat meant it that way, but that's probably how I'd interpret the demand for pics of the guitar in the case. Each side has to give a little. Did B overreact in the feedback? Absolutely. Even if you're in the right you only shoot yourself in the foot with that approach. This is just a major bad clash of personalities and I think you guys really should mutually withdraw the negs and try to learn something from the experience.

[Evol]

So instead of making the guy drive 2 hours or buy a case or find one online, why couldn't you send him one? That would have solved it best,no? Pay for the guitar than you hit BIN on, ship him a case of your liking and voila, problem solved.

[shreddermon]

Evol, did you read the whole thread? I already said that Bergsheil never mentioned any difficulty in getting case. See below (underline added for emphasis).

And, oh yeah, Berg's sad story about living in the boonies and how hard it would be to get a case was never mentioned until posted in this thread. If he had asked, I would've had a case shipped to his freakin' door. Or reimbursed him for his time to get one. I was open to alternatives - I repeatedly asked him to offer an option of his own that would be acceptable to him - but got nothing in return.

In fact, he had already agreed to get one so, to my knowledge, this was not an issue at all. I mean, why would I offer to ship one, if he had already agreed to take care of it and didn't state that it was troublesome for him to do so?

And, since I repeatedly asked him to suggest some other alternative that would be acceptable to him, he had plenty of opportunities to say to me that getting the case was a pain for him. If he did, I would've gladly just had one shipped to his door. Or he could've suggested that as an alternative himself. I asked him several times to suggest something else that was acceptable to him - he offered nothing every time.

The only issue was that Berg refused to supply a picture of the case as proof before payment of the guitar. ...Which sure didn't seem to make sense to me, since I was paying for it in advance and - at this point - we both understood that the case wasn't covered under the auction terms. That made me lose trust that Berg actually intended to get one and ship that way (both on my dime, paid in advance). Not to mention the tone in his messages by that point.

[SeventhSon]

Possibly he felt that you refusing to pay in full upfront was you saying you didn't trust him, after you were the one to hit BIN and he HAD agreed to get a case to ship it in?

I think you each made a wrong move that created distrust and animosity. Berg had the right to just say that the deal was what the ad called for, and Shred, you have been around long enough to know that "assume" is ass u me on Ebay.

Berg likely felt that he WAS accomodating you by agreeing to go get a hsc. The fact that he didn't mention before that that would be a PITA doesn't mean it isn't true. He really overreacted in his feedback comments and that does make him look like the asshole, but you provoked him by asking for extra effort and then saying, "but I don't trust you".

I know Shred is an honest guy, but the only thing I'd condemn Berg for here is having a short fuse when things went south. He had a right to be pissed about getting neged first when he did try to accomodate Shred, but he made himself look bad by the language he used.

I've seen two people with honest intent blow up at each other through mistrust and miscommunication many times. Looks like this was another one.

*imo* i'd say berg got screwed. the gist of it is that he's a seller who had an auction with a BIN that got hit and he was prepared to fully comply with 100% of the auction terms. and then he ends up getting a negative?!

all the subsequent drama after the BIN is hit is just that...drama. it may affect your opinion on whether berg "deserves" some people's negative opinions, but it doesn't affect the terms of the deal that were implicitly agreed to on both sides when shreddermon hit the BIN. why does berg deserve a negative when he doesn't like shreddermon's renegotiation terms? he is under NO obligation to accept shreddermon's offers of renegotiation no matter how reasonable (or not) they are.

[SeventhSon]

Also, a lot of you chiming in with opinions based on Berg losing his cool need to read this...

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

[SeventhSon]

I know we couldn't come to an agreement. But that's not what I asked. I want to know why it wasn't acceptable to you? And why you couldn't offer some other alternative?

They're pretty simple questions to answer, if you stop avoiding them.

You DID come to an agreement when you hit the BIN.

There was NO subsequent agreement that he is bound to. He is under NO obligation to follow your renegotiation attempts or justify his refusal to do so.

You reneged on your BIN obligations. Full stop. End of story.

[Spivonious]

You DID come to an agreement when you hit the BIN.

There was NO subsequent agreement that he is bound to. He is under NO obligation to follow your renegotiation attempts or justify his refusal to do so.

You reneged on your BIN obligations. Full stop. End of story.

But he did agree to the new terms and then backed out when a photo was requested. That's a completely different story than if he simply refused different terms up front.

[lerxstcat]

But he did agree to the new terms and then backed out when a photo was requested. That's a completely different story than if he simply refused different terms up front.

No, he agreed to get a case, but didn't agree to Pat not paying in full upfront and to the "I don't trust you, take a picture" term. Those negotiations were all Berg being willing to vary from the BIN terms, which he had no obligation to do. He was doing Pat a favor by agreeing to additional terms and Pat's response was "okay, but I don't trust you; take a picture".

At that point Berg said "fuck this shit" which he had every right to do. By failing to fulfill the terms of the BIN that he hit, Pat is actually the guy in vioilation here. If Berg hadn't gotten ugly in his comments everyone here would see that. However, his overreaction doesn't change the fact that Pat reneged on the BIN.

Negotiate BEFORE you bid; everybody here knows that's the etiquette, and if Pat weren't an old hand and Berg a newbie there wouldn't be a debate.

Like I said, I know from his rep here that Shred is basically a standup guy, but he made an invalid assumption and it resulted in a deal gone bad. He was the first guy to step out of line in the deal, Berg was only the second, and ONLY in terms of his language.

Put yourself in that place. You have an ad, guy hits BIN, then starts adding conditions. You agree, then he expresses distrust in your good faith. Well why should you continue to negotiate with the guy? I'd go back to "fulfill the BIN terms or I'll file NPB and relist". Then the guy who reneged files a neg on YOU? Who here wouldn't be pissed by that?

If you take the names out of the scenario, it's a bit clearer who was at fault initially. Temper is a bad thing when you're ASKING for extra consideration.

[quiksilver]

Well put, lerx.

[semagic]

You DID come to an agreement when you hit the BIN.

There was NO subsequent agreement that he is bound to. He is under NO obligation to follow your renegotiation attempts or justify his refusal to do so.

You reneged on your BIN obligations. Full stop. End of story.

game over... make your requests BEFORE you hit the BIN.

[fett]

game over... make your requests BEFORE you hit the BIN.

That's not always possible. Sometimes there is no time to ask a question and get an answer before someone else hits the BIN. That's the whole point of BIN. A quick hit. The buyer has to READ the auction for what it is. The seller has the advantage, in that the buyer has to rely on what is on the screen. You can't have both ways on many BIN's. The one REAL big issue I have here, is that this was an ebay auction and not a "Classifieds" one and it ends up in our Feedback. The auction was what it was. The buyer hit the BIN. That should have been the end of it. All these after-auction interactions got way out of hand and that is sad. The bottom-line is it was bought; must be paid for; packed safely and shipped to the buyer. That's all.

[RacerX]

That's not always possible. Sometimes there is no time to ask a question and get an answer before someone else hits the BIN.

Then don't BIN. Hitting the BIN before asking questions is called "rollin' the dice"

[shreddermon]

Bergsheil and I have agreed to end the auction amicably. We have also agreed to withdraw the negative feedbacks against each other.

End of story.