Hate to do this... BAD DEAL with Sandman0170

[Vass]

Bleh, this does suck, and it's 2 months into the ordeal, nearly. Assuming folks have blocked you on AIM is going a bit far. Could be that they're simply not online. Doesn't appear he's been on JCF for a while either.

I cannot think of a reason why he wouldn't have warranty work done for you- no skin off his ass. That leads me to believe that he IS going to do it for you. Why the hell wouldn't he? There's no upside here for him not to, and alot of downside.

Unless, of course, he wasn't the first owner of the axe, which I doubt is the case, since it's not an "off the rack" model but 1 of a run of 10.

It's shitty, I feel for you, and I am usually the first guy to go rat shit crazy if I think I'm being walked on. I know Sandman not even a little bit, but since the two of you have been around a long time and have built up some sort of "rep" for being solid from what I can tell I have a hard time believing either one of you have gone full-on retard here. He might be a little out of line for not being very responsive, but I seriously doubt he's going to freeze you out and screw you. Why would he? He'd alienate half the folks on this board who would take your side, and be left with those who took his. This board is obviously important to him.

All of these things mitigate towards you getting taken care of. If I were moving I would be a mess, too, and I have been. That's not to excuse what's going on- It's a reason. Doesn't make it ok but perhaps makes it understandable.

Give it some time. You will ALWAYS have the chance to rip some asshole if you need to. If it was me, given that some of the other fellas have said he's MIA across the board, I'd consider asking K or others to drop this thread. You can always start it up later if you need to.

And K/other guys, extend him the offer guaranteeing he doesn't get booted in the interim if he agrees to do so?

I got no dog in this fight but I think it may be SLIGHTLY pre-mature. You absolutely have a right to do whatever you want, and you have a right to be pissed.

Moving sucks, and when I've done it in the past I have let a few balls fall in the juggle of life myself. Again, doesn't make it right, but makes it understandable.

Vass

[yard dawg]

RobRR - you will have to get in line behind the folks waiting for platinum perks.

Best line of the whole thread so far..

[RobRR]

Vass, I have an old screen name that now a days I only use to check on things... namely people who may be blocking me. Thats how I know hes been online. As for being a bit premature... not in the slightest. I only agreed to have it fixed while still under my ownership if it was done in a timely manner. Almost two months and its still in my possession is not timely. He told me he changed jobs, moved, and let me know when he got back online a couple weeks ago. So as far as I know or care, hes done moving.

Im not dropping this thread, and Im not asking anyone to guarantee I wont get booted, because ultimatley, Jeremey is the one in power, hes the owner of the board, he can do what he wants weather mods/other admins like it or not.

[VoiceX3]

Man that really stinks. If Jeremy is moving, it is possible that he has no internet access, so that would explain the lack of contact, and also the lack of funds to give you a refund.

Bleh, this does suck, and it's 2 months into the ordeal, nearly. Assuming folks have blocked you on AIM is going a bit far. Could be that they're simply not online. Doesn't appear he's been on JCF for a while either.

I cannot think of a reason why he wouldn't have warranty work done for you- no skin off his ass. That leads me to believe that he IS going to do it for you. Why the hell wouldn't he? There's no upside here for him not to, and alot of downside.

Unless, of course, he wasn't the first owner of the axe, which I doubt is the case, since it's not an "off the rack" model but 1 of a run of 10.

It's shitty, I feel for you, and I am usually the first guy to go rat shit crazy if I think I'm being walked on. I know Sandman not even a little bit, but since the two of you have been around a long time and have built up some sort of "rep" for being solid from what I can tell I have a hard time believing either one of you have gone full-on retard here. He might be a little out of line for not being very responsive, but I seriously doubt he's going to freeze you out and screw you. Why would he? He'd alienate half the folks on this board who would take your side, and be left with those who took his. This board is obviously important to him.

All of these things mitigate towards you getting taken care of. If I were moving I would be a mess, too, and I have been. That's not to excuse what's going on- It's a reason. Doesn't make it ok but perhaps makes it understandable.

Give it some time. You will ALWAYS have the chance to rip some asshole if you need to. If it was me, given that some of the other fellas have said he's MIA across the board, I'd consider asking K or others to drop this thread. You can always start it up later if you need to.

And K/other guys, extend him the offer guaranteeing he doesn't get booted in the interim if he agrees to do so?

I got no dog in this fight but I think it may be SLIGHTLY pre-mature. You absolutely have a right to do whatever you want, and you have a right to be pissed.

Moving sucks, and when I've done it in the past I have let a few balls fall in the juggle of life myself. Again, doesn't make it right, but makes it understandable.

Vass

Vass, I have an old screen name that now a days I only use to check on things... namely people who may be blocking me. Thats how I know hes been online. As for being a bit premature... not in the slightest. I only agreed to have it fixed while still under my ownership if it was done in a timely manner. Almost two months and its still in my possession is not timely. He told me he changed jobs, moved, and let me know when he got back online a couple weeks ago. So as far as I know or care, hes done moving.

Im not dropping this thread, and Im not asking anyone to guarantee I wont get booted, because ultimatley, Jeremey is the one in power, hes the owner of the board, he can do what he wants weather mods/other admins like it or not.

Rob's rebuttal says it all. Telephones work, internet works, even relaying messages thru other people would work. There is something shady going on. Maybe get the serial and have someone at Jackson look it up to see if it was sent in once for repair already or not. It just does not gel that he would ask Rob to try and fix it himself especially with drilling involved as I'm sure that would void the warranty right there. This was from a limited run right? I find it hard to believe (even tho some people question QC) that on a 10 piece run that #1 would have these kinds of issues. Issues with specs and such yes, but a functionality issue? Another thing to ask Jackson is if it is possibly a factory second or "B-Stock" which would explain how it made it from the factory in it's condition. I've seen those type guitars go out with an "S" stamped sloppily and not quite as deep in the board by the serial number. Could there have been one there that "disappeared" with the barely readable serial???? I wouldn't care if Jesus himself sold me a guitar like that.....I'd be pissed and would have pursued it to the very fullest extent I could within law.

[MikeStrat]

This is just wrong and I do feel bad for Rob. I know how I would feel if it were me and that's why I always buy new gear. My only question is how in the world do you fuck up a nice guitar like that without doing it on purpose? Especially a limited run! That list of problems is amazing to me. I don't understand what is wrong with some people.

[~K~]

I can assure you of the following

Jeremy is the original owner of the guitar
The guitar has never been sent for any repairs that I'm aware of
Jeremy has never complained about any issues with this guitar since he owned it
If Rob has a legitimate gripe he will not get banned. He hasn't done anything to warrant getting banned.
I don't know what is up with Jeremy and I don't know his side of the story.
what I was told from a 3rd party last night is that Jackson is willing to warranty that guitar and that Jeremy told this person that he personally contacted them to get it done. So I think somewhere in this mess is probably an amicable solution in this

It is possible that he never saw these issues. At times I've not noticed things and felt like an ass when someone else did ..

Again I'm not taking sides and I'm not making excuses for anyone. I just want cooler heads to prevail and the right thing to happen

[RobRR]

I was told it would be covered under warranty. Part of the deal was that if it would have been taken care of in a reasonable amount of time, I would be OK with the repair. Two months just to be told to take it somewhere is not a reasonable amount of time. It should have been in Jacksons hands within a couple weeks, not months.

Im not very comfortable sending out a guitar I paid $1500 to be repaired, when the repair is not even in my name. This is why I originally suggested to refund my money, then he could send the guitar in. Once it was fixed, Id gladly buy it back... the response I got was something like "if I get the guitar fixed, then I wont be letting it go for only $1500." I thought my option was more than fair, but it seems like I was basically given an ultimatum. Get your money back and lose the guitar for good, or wait and see what happens.

On 5/4, he told me that he found out it was definitley under warranty. I wasnt asked until 6/7 to take it to an authorized repair shop. Thats over a month, and again, is unacceptable.

Its not just about the money folks, its about the time. Ive been out $1520 for over two months now... if it goes to Jackson, add another few months at the very least onto that. Thats money that could have gone towards bills, in the bank, to fix my truck, buy food for my family, what ever... but I decided to buy this guitar because I wanted it in the worst way. So far, Im the only one thats out anything on this deal, and Im not about to be out another dime. Period.

Theres only two places this guitar is going... back to Jeremy, or DIRECTLY to Jackson. And if it goes to Jackson while I still own it, I would like an ETA of repair/replacement... basically I want to be in the loop, after all, its my money thats on the line. Is that being unreasonable?

[Newc]

1: The floyd nut moves and creaks because the truss cavity is off center, and the low e side of the nut has nothing to anchor into. I found a piece of dowell wedged in there which was at one point held in by a bit of clearish glue.

2: The rear cover (which wasnt included in the sale) cant be installed when the action is low because the springs will hit it.

3: The floyd sits lower on the high e side when the action is properly set. Almost completley bottomed out in the rout on the high e side.

4: The gold on the floyd is fading on the saddles, though it specifically says in the auction that the Floyd is not worn.

5: The headstock masking job is horrible, the edges of the paint-to binding are not clean at all, can see a bit of wood at one or two small spots.

6: Alot of binding scraping marks on the fretboard mostly by the upper registers, so much so that the serial is very hard to read.


...I replied that if he would like to have the warranty work done while he was saving for my refund, and if it was done in a timely manner, I would keep the guitar.

1. Manufacturing flaw that was partially corrected with a dowel at the factory. Not Jeremy's fault, especially if he never had the cover off to adjust it, which is very possible since the guitar went basically down the street as opposed to cross-country.

2. Personal preference. Maybe Jeremy liked his action high enough that he did not notice this? It's possible. Many people remove the trem covers just to get to the springs when they need to, or to install a trem-stop device or spring muffs. Still others may not like the sound of the cover squaking/creaking when they move with the guitar.

3. Again, "properly set" is subjective to each player. You may consider the official Jackson setup as "proper", but my 2 Custom Shops that came with what I assume to be "the official Jackson setup" were not to my personal preference, or what I would refer to as "properly set".

4. I believe this was mentioned already that the auction states the hardware shows wear.

5. Only 2? Wow, my WarAngel has a thin natural adge all the way around the head. Doesn't bother me, and I paid far more than you did for that. The point is, no hand-powered mask job is flawless, especially at these prices. Just because you find a handful here and there that are perfect doesn't mean perfection wasn't achieved by luck, or by incorrect overspraying.

6. Filing by hand will do that, especially in a production environment (remember these were not individual Custom Shops made by Shannon, they were done on the line as a run). As for the serial being light, that trans blue Rhoads at NAMM was flawless, except the serial was stamped so lightly that I had to tilt it in the light to tell if it was a U or a J. It happens. It happens very often. You can't stamp a wooden board with 150 PSI and a metal stamp. You can't whack it with a hammer to get a deep impression, either, and you certainly can't do it very precisely on a drill press.

"Timely manner" is also subjective.

I'm not taking anyone's side, I'm simply saying that you've left a few things open for interpretation, and that not everyone will notice things that are wrong, particularly if those things can only be found under certain conditions.

[~K~]

Theres only two places this guitar is going... back to Jeremy, or DIRECTLY to Jackson. And if it goes to Jackson while I still own it, I would like an ETA of repair/replacement... basically I want to be in the loop, after all, its my money thats on the line. Is that being unreasonable?

The guitar under any circumstance wouldn't go back to Jackson, it HAS to go to an authorized center and they will determine if it goes back. That's standard process. So to say that it only goes directly to Jackson or nothing is a bit unfair. They just don't do business that way.

Now it is time for me to shut up because I don't want to have people assume I'm taking sides, I'm not. I'm just pointing out the process that we all have to follow when it comes to warranty issues

[~K~]

FWIW it would be 100% reasonable to ask to be compensated for the guitar going back to the center whether it be shipping costs or gas reimbursement ..

[joelayres]

That sounds fair

[RobRR]

1. Manufacturing flaw that was partially corrected with a dowel at the factory. Not Jeremy's fault, especially if he never had the cover off to adjust it, which is very possible since the guitar went basically down the street as opposed to cross-country.

And thats fine, he said he didnt notice it and I believed him. Regardless of who noticed what, the defect was still there, and that was my main concern. The rest is little stuff in comparison, but went unmentioned none the less.

2. Personal preference. Maybe Jeremy liked his action high enough that he did not notice this? It's possible. Many people remove the trem covers just to get to the springs when they need to, or to install a trem-stop device or spring muffs. Still others may not like the sound of the cover squaking/creaking when they move with the guitar.

And thats fine too, but its still a defect.

3. Again, "properly set" is subjective to each player. You may consider the official Jackson setup as "proper", but my 2 Custom Shops that came with what I assume to be "the official Jackson setup" were not to my personal preference, or what I would refer to as "properly set".

I think we would all agree that Jacksons are primarily shredders. Aside from Yngwie, I dont know many people who shred with unusually high action. The "official Jackson setup" point is moot because temperature and altitude changes will negate any factory setup. Jacksons are known for their low action and amazing playability. To get the action even on both the bass and treble side, the bridge must be uneven... which is keep the treble side action higher than it needs to be.

4. I believe this was mentioned already that the auction states the hardware shows wear.

The auction also states that there is no wear on the Floyd, doesent it? I quote "(Floyd is not fading)"

5. Only 2? Wow, my WarAngel has a thin natural adge all the way around the head. Doesn't bother me, and I paid far more than you did for that. The point is, no hand-powered mask job is flawless, especially at these prices. Just because you find a handful here and there that are perfect doesn't mean perfection wasn't achieved by luck, or by incorrect overspraying.

Maybe you just have low standards? I dont know, but on every other USA Select Ive seen and played, along with the trans black SL1 I sold, the headstock masking was perfect. Youre saying a bad masking job is acceptable on a guitar that was over $2000 new? Please... Ive got $300 imports that look better.

6. Filing by hand will do that, especially in a production environment (remember these were not individual Custom Shops made by Shannon, they were done on the line as a run). As for the serial being light, that trans blue Rhoads at NAMM was flawless, except the serial was stamped so lightly that I had to tilt it in the light to tell if it was a U or a J. It happens. It happens very often. You can't stamp a wooden board with 150 PSI and a metal stamp. You can't whack it with a hammer to get a deep impression, either, and you certainly can't do it very precisely on a drill press.

Filing is done by hand, correct. And final sanding and radiusing is probably done by hand too, by a human, that has eyes, which can see these sorts of things. And if it is done mechanically, then thats what inspection steps in the process are for. The serial should be one of the last things added to the guitar once the fretboard work is done... thats why in the manufacturing process, we have what are called "travel tags" throughout the process.

"Timely manner" is also subjective.

I'm not taking anyone's side, I'm simply saying that you've left a few things open for interpretation, and that not everyone will notice things that are wrong, particularly if those things can only be found under certain conditions.

I think most of us could agree that two months is MORE than sufficient. All of the issues I found can be found under any normal conditions... all you have to do is pay a little attention. Maybe he didnt use the Floyd much so he never noticed the nut problem... ok. But as much as I was asked to try the Gorilla Glue first... to be honest, the clear somewhat aerated glue residue that I removed from that area looked alot like dried Gorilla Glue, as that glue is pretty distinctive. And its obvious that the truss was adjusted quite a bit judging from the nice groove worn in the truss nut from the floyd screw... which actually reminds me of another problem I forgot to add... that the truss has no more adjustment left in it for relief. With 9-42 guage strings which I use, the truss rod is completley loose, and could stand to have a bit more relief yet. Whats next, I should change my strings to suit the needs of the guitar too?

[RobRR]

The guitar under any circumstance wouldn't go back to Jackson, it HAS to go to an authorized center and they will determine if it goes back. That's standard process. So to say that it only goes directly to Jackson or nothing is a bit unfair. They just don't do business that way.

Now it is time for me to shut up because I don't want to have people assume I'm taking sides, I'm not. I'm just pointing out the process that we all have to follow when it comes to warranty issues

One of the last messages from Jeremy, he said he could just have me ship it straight to Jackson. Weather thats the case or not, Im not sure but I would be inclined to believe that Jackson could take care of this directly. Now keep in mind, were already two months in, I was frustrated as it is and just kindly asked, again, for my money back.

Now, could I have just sent it to Jackson at his request... sure. But again, Im tired of the situation. I would have gladly done that a month ago had I been asked. At this point, if shipping it right to Jackson could make things right, then Im for it. Its pretty obvious that Im probably not getting my money back, so what other choice do I have?

[~K~]

Its pretty obvious that Im probably not getting my money back, so what other choice do I have?

If you cant work anything out with J your only other recourse may be to go to the service center, get it fixed and then sell it to recoup your money. Again, I haven't spoken to him myself and he may well have had a deal worked directly with Jackson. I just know that normally they don't do warranty work, it is done through a repair center unless they determine it has to go back ...

Rob I think the whole situation sucks and I know the options that I would hvae given. But that's me and my opinion in this means squat. I'm not stating anything that will give anyone the fuel to say I'm taking sides and covering for another admin.

I give my assurance in posting this thread that you wont get tossed from here. It's something that you feel is a legit gripe and you're handling it in the way that any member would handle another member .. no worries ..

[RobRR]

I remember one of our members sent in his Charvel pointy in for the headstock clearcoat lifting issue. They said that they need the guitar in hand instead of replacing the neck, because of tolerances and whatnot. That was a tiny issue in comparison... this whole guitar probably needs to be rebuilt.