Problem paying from abroad...

[Cuthbert]

I'm opening a thread in order to ask a advice about some problems I'm experiencing buying in the US...like some of them know, I live in Euroland.

I mostly buy,like many others non american members in the US for two reasons: one, is to buy gear at a honest price, since it seems that in our countries guitars etc... come to cost at least twice in respect with the current prices in the US, and to get something that I can't find here.

Now, still like many others, I've experienced problems with paypal, and I'm still discussing, well not really discussing, because these people simply regurgitate the rules, but anyway, without paypal the only options are money transfers and wire transfers, both expensive and time consuming...and not always buyers accept them.

For instance, recently I had a problem with a seller for a transaction, not really expensive, but anyway I was given the choice to pay through postal order. Ok done, gone to the post office, and found out that our postal service has a deal with a private society called Moneygram to send postal orders in the US...as far as I know this society works like Western Union, with some agents on the territory, the sender gives a code to the receiver, and he/she goes to collect the money. I tought there was no problem with that.

Of course, if I'm writing here, I was wrong!

The seller seemed to be very scared and said that this postal order wasn't a postal order, and that he couldn't accept the payment because he needed to "protect himself"...now, I'm writiing here mainly to ask people of the board if they had problems with this kind of payment and if it's true that they're not safe, since I had other transactions with these moneygram postal order or money orders or whatever and I never had a problem with that.

Thanks for your input in advance.

[wilkinsi]

I can understand having to buy from the USA. My WR1, bought from another JCF'er thru ebay/paypal was a far better deal (both in price and service) than my DK1 which I bought in the UK.

The postal order thingy doesn't protect the buyer thru ebay/paypal (I'm assuming this is how you are buying). You can't file a non-delivery claim if you use a money order. I'm not sure how money orders would deter sellers, probably that it may take longer for them to be cashed, or that their bank can reject them for some reason.

[Newc]

There's no protection for the buyer or the seller with a money order.


Wire transfers are scary to many because it means divulging your bank account number, however, I did one a few years ago as a seller and simply notified my bank that I was expecting an incoming transfer from overseas for that amount, and that it was a deposit, not a withdrawal. They said "Ok" and the deal went smooth.

I've also seen a few online stores in Japan and Europe that had their bank info listed for doing wire transfers, so I'm assuming to actually take money from someone's account, you'd need some sort of authorization code.

However, American banks aren't exactly known for their safety, particularly compared to Japan and Europe, as evidenced by the "African Email Scam" thing a few years ago. Bank security here may have improved since then to be on-par with other countries, I can't say.

We definintely need another online payment processing service that is as reliable as PayPal used to be but isn't the tragic failure PayPal has turned into.

[Cuthbert]

There's no protection for the buyer or the seller with a money order.

My question is...which kind of protection doesn't a money order offer to the receiver?I mean, I understand it takes time and you have to fill a lot of paperwork, but besides that, I just see risks for who sends it.

[missionguitars1]

If you are outside the US, the biggest suggestion I can offer is to become verified at Paypal...I know - I hate Paypal too...but if you are verified, it means your addie is legit, and the likelihood of a US seller shipping to you will be higher...

FWIW, I've been shipping around the world for 10+ years, NEVER had a problem with payment from ANYONE overseas....includes Indonesia, Malaysia, Russia, Singapore - Europe's a no-brainer!

[wilkinsi]

Hence my only option is to give the cash to my mum and she uses her paypal to buy from USA sellers.

[Rich#6]

I state in my auctions Postal money order only, but I do get moneygrams. Postal ones you can cash at the post office(if they have the money) or have them look up the number to see if its legit. Theirs is also a lot harder to fake. Very safe to take a postal money order. Kindoff hard to get one outside the US though.
Money grams have the heatsensitive area to check if it's good. I will take moneygrams even though I state Postal only.

[Cuthbert]

I state in my auctions Postal money order only, but I do get moneygrams. Postal ones you can cash at the post office(if they have the money) or have them look up the number to see if its legit. Theirs is also a lot harder to fake. Very safe to take a postal money order. Kindoff hard to get one outside the US though.
Money grams have the heatsensitive area to check if it's good. I will take moneygrams even though I state Postal only.

I wish you were my seller!One week and no contact...I assume I have to go the post office and get back what I can...

[Cuthbert]

Ok in the end the seller refused to take the money, the clerk at the post office didn't believe that, she confirmed that it was a postal order, and didn't understand which problem that guy had, so at the beginning she didn't want to change it.

Of course, I lost the fees,20$ and in general I have to say it was a BAD experience, I chose to buy from this person because he's a member, but now, honestly, I think I won't make any business with any member of this board,respectfully.

[Phantom Hawk]

Yeah, as evil as Paypal is, its really the easiest and safest way to buy and sell from across the ocean. Both parties are pretty well protected, too. The last few years, most guitars I've sold have gone to Europe and I've never had a problem. And yeah, that even includes Wilkinsi The fees blow and it irritates me every time, but the ease balances it out.

Hey Cuthbert, even though your situation was a big pain in the ass, try not to let it spoil the possibility of dealing with another member. I've dealt with quite a few and every time has been great. Not one problem ever. Better luck next time

[Budman68]

Alex,

Maybe you should enlighten us to who this chump is so that we can watch out for this dishonest bastard.

Maybe he'll at least have a chance to give his side of the story

Dave

[Rich#6]

I didn't realize it was a bro. That's BS. I could see if you were a newbie not trusting you but not an oldtimer.

[Budman68]

Ok, for those who are concerned, the seller is me. Before we get the lynch mob going, lets just get some of the facts straight first. Also, I know posting emails is not allowed so I will just pull some small quotes for reference.

Alex came to me asking about parts for a couple of his guitars. After going through and making a list he asked if I can accept credit cards without going through paypal but unfortunately I can't so the normal options apply that every international buyer has from me and that's with Paypal or an International Money Order. On Sept. 30th he says :

"I'll send you a money order as soon as I can, therefore I need your mailing address...

Regards,Alex."

Now naturally with my addressed asked, I assume the Money Order is being "Physically" sent. Great.

On the 4th he says:

" Dave, I sent the payment through a moneygram postal order.

You have to give them (meaning a department store that I would have to go to and fill out the form and pick this up) a reference code for the transaction, which is ******, let me know when you have withdrawn the money.

Regards,Alex."

Now as we all know, at least I thought we did, an International Money Order is not a MoneyGram and not a form of payment I will accept, a long story why, but I will not accept those for good reasons and lets just say that I wasted a lot of time with those at one point

Anyhow

I proceeded to tell him:

"Alex,

I wish you would have asked before you did this as unfortunately I will not accept those.

I've already given you the choices of how I accept payment as there is a reason for those choices.

Thanks so much,
Dave"

Then he writes:

"The money order I sent is the only money order that can be sent to the US from this country...."

Then I emailed him back and asked that maybe he did not know what an International Money Order is and explained that we may have a communication issue here and I'm starting to wonder if he really even understands what he's ordering from me and may want to rethink placing the order as I'm not sure he's be happy with what he receives, and we all know how that will end up

So he tells me he knows EXACTLY (yes, typed just like that) what a money order is and how to get it and he then tells me about his ebay history and how he has 100 feedbacks and he's paid with "money orders" and nobody told him he didn't know what a money order was when he did it this way.

So now I'm wondering if I screwed up and searched the internet about what the differences were between the terminologies of International Money Order and moneygram (remember, he even uses the term "moneygram" when he told me about sending the money to me).

So all I find is various links that explain what money orders are as opposed to moneygrams and not one description said that an International Money Order was the same as a moneygram.

Now if you were going to buy from someone in another country, wouldn't you do your homework and find out exactly what an International Money Order was?

I know I would. I explained to him that I was not trying to be difficult and I never meant to piss him off but there's a reason why I chose the methods of paymaent that I did/do.

Then he sends me a picture of the receipt and says:

"For the record, I'm sending here a pic of the receipt of the money order, in the lower right corner you can read "Poste Italiane", that means of course italian post office, and on the top it's written in english "international money transfer send form", therefore this is the receipt of a international money order from the governative postal service of this country, if our postal service has a agreement with a private society to carry the order in the US, it's not my fault."


Not my fault either but again, it says "international money transfer send form" which right there is not an International Money Order (I'm tired of typing that as much as you're tired of reading it!)

So I emailed back:

"international money transfer send form"

That's it right there, it a money transfer which a moneygram, not a money order.

As for insinuations, I'm not insinuating anything at all. I have not accused you of anything at all, and again, here is the communication issue. I'm simply stating that I sent you 2 options of payment, and you did an option other than what I had asked. When you did that, I stated that I will not accept that form of payment (as it wasn't one of the options) and then you proceeded to tell me that you did in fact do what I asked for payment and got upset about it.

This is obviously going nowhere so lets please agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Thanks so much,
Dave"

I figured that said it all as I just do not have time to argue like this when it's going nowhere and I seriously can not afford to get pissed off anymore about this so I was done at this point, which I figured he'd understand. But I was wrong..

He did email again and said that now that he has sent the money and he will lose the fee if the moneygram is not picked up by me. Quite honestly I just stopped responding as I as I said above, I've had enough.

As for trusting someone here that's a "bro", I've been f*&^%$ way too many times by "bros" before so go ahead and say what you like about the way I deal but most of you all know damn sure that I'm honest and I would not screw you in any way shape or form. I do not know Alex from "Adam" as I rarely do any posting here anymore. I log in everyday as it opens automatically in my browser but only look at maybe a few posts, if that.

As I said before, there's a reason I won't accept moneygrams as they can be a real pain in the ass at times as they don't always go smoothly and just part of the reason I stopped shipping internationally for awhile there. I can happily say that this is the first issue that happened since I've restarted dealing internationally which was quite a while ago now.

If anybody is thinking, "I guess he doesn't need the money that bad then", you're absolutely right. I have a full time job with a family and I do this on the side (which is practically another full time job) because I love to do it and I just don't have the time for that crap.

This is all I will be saying on this matter as I'm not into escallating this any further but there's always another side to a story and thought you should hear it from me as this way you can now form your own assumptions. Believe what you'd like, and I hope I didn't waste your time with all this garbage. I'm tired of typing.......

Dave

[MartinBarre]

What this seems to come down to is a misunderstanding and, at the end of the day, Dave is perfectly within his rights not to accept this guy's payment.
I've bought stuff from Dave in the past - I'm in Scotland myself - in fact he's just finished something for me this week, and I have always found him to be reliable, friendly, genuine and an all round good guy.
Why should he have to go to the time and hassle of going to some department store to get paid for doing work - at a fantastic price I'm certain?

I'm sure pretty much everyone here knows exactly what a cool guy Dave is.

[wilkinsi]

Yeah, as evil as Paypal is, its really the easiest and safest way to buy and sell from across the ocean. Both parties are pretty well protected, too. The last few years, most guitars I've sold have gone to Europe and I've never had a problem. And yeah, that even includes Wilkinsi The fees blow and it irritates me every time, but the ease balances it out.

That's right. I paid you in £6 notes! :ROTF: