randy denied

[RacerX]

- I get it- The purist & the alchemist. But then Jack White? What, the trendy guy that the "kids" know? He fits not at all.

What they needed in that mix was a SHREDDER. You had the simple, tasty pentatonic Marshall guy, the layered, effects-driven complicated guy....you needed the fingerboard burner, the virtuoso, the musically-mental guy who eats modes & shits scales 10 times before breakfast....Instead we get Jack White.

Ugh.

OK, Vass, who'd be your choice then, Gilbert?

[Newc]

Wow that's tough. These lists are always tough. Randy might not make a Top 10 list. Top 10 is hard - you're talking about GAME CHANGERS in the Top 10.

And how exactly did Rhoads NOT change the game? Yes, you had Uli Roth and Blackmore and others traveling through Europe in bands that were hot in the underground doing the Classical Shred before Rhoads, but the Underground doesn't count, plain and simple. Ozzy's popularity brought Rhoads to the more mainstream player, and thus inspired those same people who knew about EVH but not about Uli, or Blackmore beyond Smoke On The Water.

THAT made Rhoads a gamechanger.

[Grandturk]

And how exactly did Rhoads NOT change the game? ... THAT made Rhoads a gamechanger.

I didn't say he didn't change the game and I didn't say I don't like Randy, but even if you just go chronologically, there's a lot of folks to get to before you get to Randy. Just off the top of my head, I wanted to list out guys who you have to put on the list before Randy:

- Charlie Christian
- Django Reinhart
- Les Paul
- Bo Didley (and I'm leaving a lot of blues cats out that basically invented R&R - but IMO, Bo Didley put the rhythm in it)
- Eric Clapton
- Jimmy Page
- Jimi Hendrix
- Ritchie Blackmore
- Tony Iommi
- EVH

That's 10 right there and it excludes:

- Uli Roth
- Al DiMiola (sp?)
- Jeff Beck
- Allan Holdsworth
- Wes Montgomery
- insert your other old guy here

Point is - I would name a bunch of other guys in front of Randy for changing the game, but he's definately Top 20. And in that respect, the much hated Kurt Cobain would be a game changer as well.

[atomic charvel guy]

why get all uppity over a stupid list? there is no greatest guitar player anyway. they're all people with something to offer if you can keep your ears open and give things a real listen. we all know who rips, shreds, is sloppy, writes good tunes, etc.
it gets so old. listen to the music.

[Grandturk]

+1

[BRADSTANG]

i just dont know how they have some of the the same class style players chosen above others. example, dave murray(who i like) made it, then why not glenn tipton ,same game, tipton in my mind is a lot better and they started the game going before maiden did. i dont recall if iommi made it? it did have other guitarists i admire like chet atkins , david gilmour and dimebag made it. dime in my mind is one of my top three metal guitarists, i know he idolized eddie and randy did it for him too, zakk wylde would dream to be randy good . jimi hendrix made it in there for basically three years work to be remembered for kinda like randy did time wise. randy no doubt would have been better than all of these guys given what he had already learned and what he was gonna be due to him going to quit the rock game for a while to get a degree in music and study classical guitar even more. once again like our government, a few select people speaking for the masses, the young musicians need to learn of randy and this pulblication doesn't help educating them, hope the new ozzy/randy dvd will enlighten a new generation.

[jgcable]

Don't forget Ace Frehley. He was a huge influence back in the mid to late 70's.
Back then.. guitar player magazine always listed the top guitar players. Page, Blackmore, Frehley, Beck, Perry, Iommi etc... then, the new crop.... Van Halen, Lynch, Rhoads, Demartini, etc... then the new crop.... Malmsteen, Gilbert, Vai, Satch, etc... then... gasp.... Cobaine and the hose of grunge players who also influenced kids to pick up the guitar. Unfortunately... this new list of players and styles all had a few things in common.. no guitar solo's and aweful guitar sound.

[VitaminG]

"Now let me talk to you about some guy you have never heard of, who only recorded one album that is LONG out of print and can only be found at the thrift store. He's amazing. I recognized his greatness the minute I heard him. Well, me and 10,000 of my hipster friends did."

oh god, another Shawn Lane fan.

A lot of guitar magazine journalists write shit based on what they grew up with or whatever has been around during their life time. Very little comes from anthropological/historical perspective.

yup. And that's why you never see (or at least, never saw) Gary Moore in magazine lists of greatest rock guitarists. He was doing a lot of those signature things that Randy is so well known for before Randy first appeared with Ozzy, but in the US, no one knew who Gary was. And so even though many guitarists all over the world know who he is now thanks to Still Got The Blues and thanks to rereleases of his old albums know now what a kickass hard rock guitarist he was, American journallists don't remember him as an influence when they were first picking up the guitar and listening to VH, Lynch & Rhoads.

And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, this isn't meant to disparage Randy in the least. I absolutely loved what the guy did.

why get all uppity over a stupid list? there is no greatest guitar player anyway. they're all people with something to offer if you can keep your ears open and give things a real listen. we all know who rips, shreds, is sloppy, writes good tunes, etc.
it gets so old. listen to the music.

+1
always The Man, Tommy :thumbsup:

[Endrik]

And how exactly did Rhoads NOT change the game? Yes, you had Uli Roth and Blackmore and others traveling through Europe in bands that were hot in the underground doing the Classical Shred before Rhoads, but the Underground doesn't count, plain and simple. Ozzy's popularity brought Rhoads to the more mainstream player, and thus inspired those same people who knew about EVH but not about Uli, or Blackmore beyond Smoke On The Water.

Deep Purple sold over 100 million albums, they played the biggest festivals everywhere. Blackmore also had a lot of mainstream success with Rainbow. Underground is one thing that Blackmore definitely is not.

And since you bring up classical playing then most people play classical music with classical guitar. I bet the majority of guitars around the world are classical or acoustic. And the people who play them have totally different influences than electric gunslingers.

[Trussrod]

And how exactly did Rhoads NOT change the game? Yes, you had Uli Roth and Blackmore and others traveling through Europe in bands that were hot in the underground doing the Classical Shred before Rhoads, but the Underground doesn't count, plain and simple. Ozzy's popularity brought Rhoads to the more mainstream player, and thus inspired those same people who knew about EVH but not about Uli, or Blackmore beyond Smoke On The Water.

THAT made Rhoads a gamechanger.

Iron Man won best song of the decade on a local radio contest in 1980. A lot of teenagers were interested in Black Sabbath before RR joined Ozzy. So Ozzy's fame helped Randy reach a wide audience from the start BUT Ozzy's phenomenal success as a solo artist at the time was largely based on Randy's playing and compositions. There was also a growing desire to move away from the blues influenced rock of the 60's and 70's. Randy's understanding of classical music and the fact he played classical guitar added to his credibility. Randy's death only seemed to increase interest in his music and the possibilities created by incorporating classical music in rock. Although VH and bands like Judas Priest helped promote the genre it should be obvious to anyone who lived through that period that Randy's music, virtuoso performances and early death had an enormous impact on rock. He created a new standard against which all rock guitarists who came after him would be measured.

[Jacksonguy666]

I saw a list with John Mayer as the #1 guitarist. :ROTF: I think it was rolling stone.

[Vass]

OK, Vass, who'd be your choice then, Gilbert?

Actually 2 of the guys I'd choose would be trainwrecks in the sense that they'd take over the entire discussion. Yngwie would be on the list (but he'd probably "unleash the f'cking fury". Taking it in a different direction would be Eddie....not so neoclassical but well...he's Eddie.

In the end as far as playing nice with others I'd look to Vai.

Do you think White was a good fit?

As to the comment that Page wanted White...maybe so and deferring to Jimmy Page's tastes is not a terrible idea. I would point out however that the documentary is not "Jimmy Page & Friends".

[Grandturk]

Yngwie would be on the list (but he'd probably "unleash the f'cking fury". Taking it in a different direction would be Eddie....not so neoclassical but well...he's Eddie.

In the end as far as playing nice with others I'd look to Vai.

Do you think White was a good fit?

I think more or less they were looking for a 90's - 00's "impact" player. You have to look at U2 and Led Zep because they are tremendously popular bands beyond the realm of guitar players. No one who is not a hard rock/metal guitar player knows who Steve Vai or Yngwie Malmsteen or Paul Gilbert is.

If he was still alive, I'm sure Kurt Cobain would have been in that movie instead of Jack White.

Jack White is a good fit for style and popularity.

Another good fit would have been someone like Tom Morello who made people take notice of different guitar techniques at a time when people weren't really playing guitar anymore in popular music. He and Page could have talked about leaning on F# when you really want to rock.

[atomic charvel guy]

I saw a list with John Mayer as the #1 guitarist. :ROTF: I think it was rolling stone.

Rolling Stone :ROTF::ROTF::ROTF::ROTF:
the periodical that bagged on every album zeppelin and van halen ever put out. deplorable.

[Hellbat]

I saw a list with John Mayer as the #1 guitarist. :ROTF: I think it was rolling stone.

I think that was "List of guitarists who have contributed the most to Twitter."