Portnoy leaves Dream Theater

[Endrik]

Being on our 4th drummer as a band, we have some experience with this... as a band, you NEED the new drummer to play existing songs the right way. Its all about the feel and sound of the song that you are used to. When someone comes in and changes stuff up, it WILL throw you off, I dont care how skilled you are. Especially in a band technical like DT, everything needs to be as it is supposed to be, and perfect. Change is good, on the NEW songs to be written. You cant change the old stuff, it just doesnt work like that. The band as well as all the fans have come to know and love those songs as they are, and thats how they must stay.

Yes, if you call yourself Regressive Metal or Stagnation Hard Rock

And we're not talking about changing all the drum parts, specially some DT signature beats that all the "air-drummers" know.

[javert]

Picking a drummer based on what he may bring to new songs in the future sure would send a strong message regarding the ambitions of the band.

[lerxstcat]

DT has an established audience, and have every right to go by their own criteria in choosing the replacement drummer. You guys would not be Dream Theater fans no matter what based on your past posts regarding the band, so why should your critiques be of any interest to them? At this point it's about making them happy, and their existing fanbase. It's not like they're going Metallica-big no matter who they choose, their fanbase, album sales and ticket sales are probably not going either up nor down. So the most important thing is making themselves happy, which they did. If you don't think Mangini is as capable as Minneman of bringing new ideas in, you're tripping.

[lerxstcat]

Wans't the concensus in the Broderick thread that we have yet to see his contributions to Megadeth? A bit early to call that one... I hope he does, though.

If you think Broderick is incapable of doing that, I'd have to say you are wrong. He's certainly capable of playing everything the guitarists who came before him did. The question in Megadeth is what Dave will LET him do, not what he is capable of doing.

[javert]

If you think Broderick is incapable of doing that, I'd have to say you are wrong. He's certainly capable of playing everything the guitarists who came before him did. The question in Megadeth is what Dave will LET him do, not what he is capable of doing.

Where did I say that? Yes, Broderick has amazing skills and the potential to make an impact, that's why Mustaine hired him I assume. But potential is not the same as actually realizing something of any consequence.

Anyways, the question here was not whether the drummers could play the parts, but whether they could put their own interpretation into the sogns.

[javert]

DT has an established audience, and have every right to go by their own criteria in choosing the replacement drummer. You guys would not be Dream Theater fans no matter what based on your past posts regarding the band, so why should your critiques be of any interest to them? At this point it's about making them happy, and their existing fanbase. It's not like they're going Metallica-big no matter who they choose, their fanbase, album sales and ticket sales are probably not going either up nor down. So the most important thing is making themselves happy, which they did. If you don't think Mangini is as capable as Minneman of bringing new ideas in, you're tripping.

They can of course do what they want and should do what they think is right for them. And frankly I don't see any reason to get all bent out of shape just because we're discussing the future direction of a band here. As for your last sentence, I never claimed he wasn't (and we will never know what Minneman could have done) - you're putting words in my mouth (again). What I commented on was their reasoning.

[Endrik]

DT has an established audience, and have every right to go by their own criteria in choosing the replacement drummer. You guys would not be Dream Theater fans no matter what based on your past posts regarding the band, so why should your critiques be of any interest to them? At this point it's about making them happy, and their existing fanbase. It's not like they're going Metallica-big no matter who they choose, their fanbase, album sales and ticket sales are probably not going either up nor down. So the most important thing is making themselves happy, which they did. If you don't think Mangini is as capable as Minneman of bringing new ideas in, you're tripping.

why act like a little girl and put your words into my mouth?

[Sephiroth]

I know I am chiming in a little late, but I don't miss Portnoy and wish the band nothing but good luck without him. Sure he is a good drummer, but he's arrogant. When he quit, he even went as far as posting on the band's website "Dream Theater has lost it's heart and soul" as if he's the only one that matters. Their last two albums were basically a series of 10-minute drum solos with riffing written around his drumming. Hopefully this new drummer will help make the band a tighter more functioning band with more heavy input from everyone without Portnoy controlling the direction Lars Ulrich style.

[RacerX]

"Dream Theater has lost it's heart and soul"

Oh yeah? Did he spell the its with the apostrophe? What a numbnuts!

[lerxstcat]

why act like a little girl and put your words into my mouth?

Acting like a little girl? You mean posting as if you know better what DT should do than they do, or speaking condescendingly about their reasoning and their process? I don't think I am the one doing that.

[lerxstcat]

Where did I say that? Yes, Broderick has amazing skills and the potential to make an impact, that's why Mustaine hired him I assume. But potential is not the same as actually realizing something of any consequence.

Anyways, the question here was not whether the drummers could play the parts, but whether they could put their own interpretation into the sogns.

You said that the consensus on another thread was that Broderick had not yet shown that he could contribute. That may be true, but the implication was that you weren't sure he could, otherwise why even bring it up? Just to be contrary? I would think that the consensus is that it's not what he CAN do, but what Mustaine WANTS him to do, given that Mustaine makes the decisions about Megadeth music.

I think the real issue with the drummers was that the band wanted them to prove they could play the stuff exactly correctly to their standards before they inflicted their interpretations on the band. In particular that's where Virgil Donati failed, screwing up part of a song trying to do something extra cool, screwing it up several times and only then playin g it right for them to show them he could.

He should have played it right the first time, then said "I have an idea for this part, would you mind if we ran through it a few times?" Not that we don't know Virgil is quite capable of doing it right, but it was kind of a diss to them to do that when he was auditioning to prove he could do the job as required.

[Tekky]

WTF where is the Meg White tryout episode? You what would be funny, covering some DT songs with a Meg White style drum track.

You see that scene in "Network" where the guy's head explodes? Yeah, it would be pretty much like that.

As far as the bickering about DT's direction, meh. It's always going to be a hot topic of discussion. All I'm going to say on it is that it's going to be interesting to see how both camps develop from here on out.

[javert]

You said that the consensus on another thread was that Broderick had not yet shown that he could contribute. That may be true, but the implication was that you weren't sure he could, otherwise why even bring it up? Just to be contrary? I would think that the consensus is that it's not what he CAN do, but what Mustaine WANTS him to do, given that Mustaine makes the decisions about Megadeth music.

Try reading what I wrote that in response to again (hint: you wrote it). And, again, having skills and potential is not the same as actually creating anything of any consequence. Broderick is not yet a good example of somebody who did what we are discussing here.

[lerxstcat]

Try reading what I wrote that in response to again (hint: you wrote it). And, again, having skills and potential is not the same as actually creating anything of any consequence. Broderick is not yet a good example of somebody who did what we are discussing here.

He fufilled the first and most importapnt part - faithfully recreating the work of the diverse players who came before him. Whether he ever gets the chance to do more depends on what Dave Mustaine will allow him to do. The point is that he is doing an admiraqble job of what Dave Mustaine wanted first and foremost in a guitarist, which is to play HIS music perfectly. I'm gonna guess that Friedman left because he was limited in his self-expression and after 10 years was ready for something else. So part 2 of your thesis may not even be of any importance to Dave at this point. After all, we AQRE talking about the guy who claims to have sung all the solos to all the lead guitarists he's had. Like Dave, DT hired the guy who would do the job the way they want, and your idea or mine of what he brings to the table in terms of ideas doesn't matter. What matters is what THEY want. Mangini is a guy who they could probably say "do what Portnoy would do here" and as a skilled player and also a teacher, he can subsume his ego and deliver what they want. And if they DO say, "What do YOU think, Mike?" then he will share his ideas. Again, I think Donati showed just a little too much ego by trying something different instead of just playing the part like it was on the record first. Especially since he couldn't do what he wanted and kept making mistakes trying to show them his cool idea for an existing song. They don't want someone joining and 6 months in he doesn't want to play the old stuff the way it's supposed to be played.

[Animus]

Honestly, I never got Dream Theater. IMO I think there music is soulless technical wanking with cheese. I'd much rather listen to Opeth or Porcupine Tree if I wanted to hear some proggy stuff.