Resurrect Pontiac! Create jobs, help the economy. Who's with me?

[Flatpicker]

Buick sells in China. Pontiac doesn't.

[Grandturk]

Buick sells in China. Pontiac doesn't.

+1 - Buick is bigger in China than Quiet Riot was in Japan.

[texasfury]

......

[Moanalua]

As a Pontiac fan, I really don't care that Buick sells in China. What's important to me is that Pontiac was selling well, right here in the US (selling TWICE as well as Buick was). I'm not necessarily asking that Buick be shut down; I AM asking that Pontiac be brought back. GM killed Pontiac because of the Great Recession. OK, but now the recession is over, and GM is healthy again. I think that Buick and Pontiac are different ENOUGH that BOTH can be viable. The two brands pursue different demographics. Besides, even standing alone, Pontiac is such a strong, iconic brand with a large following. Its musclecars are legendary. Its red arrowhead insignia stands for all that Pontiac is loved and remembered for. So many great cars have carried that arrowhead proudly. Sales? Pontiac was selling as well as BMW was. GM needs to resurrect Pontiac so that Pontiac can serve the role it has had for decades: GM's performance brand. This role appeals to a very important demographic; GM shouldn't ignore it. Chevy can continue as GM's entry-level / economy brand (as it always was), and Buick can continue as GM's staid, more-upscale, senior-citizen brand (as it always was).

[kramer]

I own A 1994 firebird. With the TPI 350.
love it!!

but..I also have A 70 1/2 Z-28. pure muscle!
chevy wins..actually GM wins!
camaro vs firebird, firebird has the same body..but much uglier..bumpers, grill. trans-am was cool.
chevelle vs GTO. OK. both rule.
nova. corvette. monte carlo. impala.
V8 monza. '55,'56'57 bel air.
chevy seems to be the better selling car.
and those trucks!

[guitarsjb]

Camaro girl from forever ago!! Helped my brother work on his 67 when I was 8..finally got to own a 68 SS Convertible..oh hell yeah...then had to sell it. Literally cried when they loaded her up.
One of my favorite cars I never owned (rented once) 1999 Pontiac Grand Prix..talk a bout a running car!! Loved it.

[Moanalua]

Well, you can't compare a '94 350ci Firebird with a '70 1/2 Z28. A '70 1/2 Trans Am would be a fairer match, as that was Pontiac's answer to the '70 1/2 Z28. The '70 1/2 Trans Am had a 400-4V engine.

[VoiceX3]

but..I also have A 70 1/2 Z-28. pure muscle!
chevy wins..actually GM wins!
camaro vs firebird, firebird has the same body..but much uglier..bumpers, grill. trans-am was cool.
chevelle vs GTO. OK. both rule.
nova. corvette. monte carlo. impala.
V8 monza. '55,'56'57 bel air.
chevy seems to be the better selling car.
and those trucks!

Couple things... a 70 & 1/2 Z28 is a badass car for sure, but is it a Small Block or Big Block. The Trans Am had only 2 enging options, both Pontiac 400's the Ram Air III or Ram Air IV. Yes, GM Wins.
Camaro vs Firebird....similar bodies, however until the Firebird's last generation they really only shared frames and panelless chasis and even then only doors and hatches were shared. No other panels are sharable between the 2. It's a matter of taste, and with mine, the Firebird has always been at least a little better looking both outside and inside.

Chevelle VS GTO both do rule. GTO was the first real muscle car ever and Chevelle had the most different power combinations of any car in history!

Corvette is Corvette, there is nothing american in it's league....(yes including Viper)

Pontiac has as much if not more important historic value than even Chevy when it comes to american muscle.

Well, you can't compare a '94 350ci Firebird with a '70 1/2 Z28. A '70 1/2 Trans Am would be a fairer match, as that was Pontiac's answer to the '70 1/2 Z28. The '70 1/2 Trans Am had a 400-4V engine.

Gotta correct this statement too....the Trans Am wasn't the answer to the Z28 it was the other way around.

[Moanalua]

1. As a Pontiac fan, I agree that the Firebirds look better than the Camaros.
2. " " " " , I agree that Pontiac is as important--if not more so-- than Chevy
regarding American musclecars. In fact, I think Chevy couldn't handle Pontiac's
Ram Air IV engine.
3. I like your idea that Chevy had to answer the Trans Am with the Z28.

[VoiceX3]

1. As a Pontiac fan, I agree that the Firebirds look better than the Camaros.
2. " " " " , I agree that Pontiac is as important--if not more so-- than Chevy
regarding American musclecars. In fact, I think Chevy couldn't handle Pontiac's
Ram Air IV engine.
3. I like your idea that Chevy had to answer the Trans Am with the Z28.

Chevy could handle the ram air iv, they just really chose not to in the Z28 in 1970. As a matter of little known fact, the Camaro not the firebird was almost killed after the 1969 model year in favor of just keeping the Nova as the lone chevy on that platform. They were all about the big block Vettes and those wacky configured chevelles back then. In 1970 and 70 1/2 the Z was their answer to the TA. The Z wasn't the top dog till 73 with the split bumper z28, but TA took the title back with the SD 455 in 74 and held the title till the pontiac 400 and oldsmobile 403 went away in 1980. After that they were basically the same cars under the skin mechanically other than some interesting power packages Pontiac offerred in a "limited" number of special edition factory Trans Ams.

[MetalHeadMat]

Pontiac's are great, I love choosing the Trans Am or GTO in my racing games, but you have to think about the big picture:

1. They weren't selling
2. They basically had the same model for every car manufacturer
3. We're in a recession.

I think if Pontiac was resurrected and didn't have a monkey as the CEO, then that'd be sweet, but it shouldn't be done until the economy is looking better. Nobody's buying new cars, so why should we bring back a brand that already failed?

*Redundant post is redundant*

Exactly the reason why people started buying foreign cars

That's not true. References?

Look on the streets man! They're cheaper and usually more reliable. If you somehow did get a bunch of tools to fund your toolbox brigade of bringing back Pontiac, and you wanted to make them in America, the price point would be way too high because of what you'd have to pay your employees; minimum wage, benefits, the whole shibang. Unless you and your buddies are just going to make them in your garage and sell them off like that.

Not to mention you'd have to make enough profit to keep your business afloat, like buying supplies, paying for your factory(ies), etc.

[Moanalua]

Chevy could handle the ram air iv, they just really chose not to in the Z28 in 1970. As a matter of little known fact, the Camaro not the firebird was almost killed after the 1969 model year in favor of just keeping the Nova as the lone chevy on that platform. They were all about the big block Vettes and those wacky configured chevelles back then. In 1970 and 70 1/2 the Z was their answer to the TA. The Z wasn't the top dog till 73 with the split bumper z28, but TA took the title back with the SD 455 in 74 and held the title till the pontiac 400 and oldsmobile 403 went away in 1980. After that they were basically the same cars under the skin mechanically other than some interesting power packages Pontiac offerred in a "limited" number of special edition factory Trans Ams.

Actually, I'm not sure Chevy could handle the Ram Air IV in '70 in ANY Chevy models. OK, so Chevy didn't offer a rat motor in the Z28. Then let's look at GTO vs Chevelle SS. If you ordered a Chevelle SS454 with the LS6 engine, that's a very stout engine. However, my understanding is that the GTO with the Ram Air IV engine was just about as fast. And the GTO does that with a smaller engine and fewer horsepower. I think that's what annoyed Chevy.

[Nightbat]

Look on the streets man! They're cheaper and usually more reliable. If you somehow did get a bunch of tools to fund your toolbox brigade of bringing back Pontiac, and you wanted to make them in America, the price point would be way too high because of what you'd have to pay your employees.

Employees aren't the problem, the greedy bastards up top are

Japanese carindustry got a foothold in the western world by making cars at a pricepoint that didn't give the companies much profits
they weren't looking at "how much are people willing to pay for our product", they basicly calculated cost+some extra to be able to venture into the future and expand
They didn't calculate in the pride and patriotism you could use to sucker in some dork to pay 3 grand more for a car that had less handling qualities, reliability and mpg
they didn't calculate in the bonus the CEO and his managers felt entitled too at the end of the year before even a buck was made (or after much money was lost)

The US can make just as fine cars as the japanese, with the same reliability, mpg and Price
But they don't because they're cutting costs in the wrong department and marketing with the wrong philosophy

[MetalHeadMat]

Employees aren't the problem, the greedy bastards up top are

Japanese carindustry got a foothold in the western world by making cars at a pricepoint that didn't give the companies much profits
they weren't looking at "how much are people willing to pay for our product", they basicly calculated cost+some extra to be able to venture into the future and expand
They didn't calculate in the pride and patriotism you could use to sucker in some dork to pay 3 grand more for a car that had less handling qualities, reliability and mpg
they didn't calculate in the bonus the CEO and his managers felt entitled too at the end of the year before even a buck was made (or after much money was lost)

The US can make just as fine cars as the japanese, with the same reliability, mpg and Price
But they don't because they're cutting costs in the wrong department and marketing with the wrong philosophy

I completely agree, but you have to admit that a US made car is going to cost a lot more to make than a Japanese car, because of expenses like employees and maybe even factory space.

Compare a USA Soloist to a Japanese Soloist, the prices are different, specs aren't much different, (but I do admit they still are), and I personally think that the higher price has to do with paying people to make the guitar in the USA, compared to Japan or China or surrounding countries.

Not to mention if you make the cars on an assembly line, in this economy you're going to produce too many cars that nobody will be able to afford. And if you're using the same designs from Pontiac, over saturating the market with more cars that aren't different, (or offer anything that no other car company can) is a huge risk, unless you go ahead and redesign every model.

Then again, I'm probably just blowing smoke out of my ass.

[Endrik]

Then again, I'm probably just blowing smoke out of my ass.

Yup. MIJ Jackson is a compromise compared to US Jackson and it doesn't have Made In USA written on it which would automatically make it pricier.
The exact same sun dried tomatoes packaged in Italy cost a lot more than them packaged in Germany simply because one has "Made in Italy" written on it.

Japan has very high wages + incredibly high land and real-estate prices. In overpopulated high income society there's nothing cheap. US is largely underpopulated, land prices and costs outside California or North-East states are much much cheaper than in Japan.