Resurrect Pontiac! Create jobs, help the economy. Who's with me?

[MetalHeadMat]

Yup. MIJ Jackson is a compromise compared to US Jackson and it doesn't have Made In USA written on it which would automatically make it pricier.
The exact same sun dried tomatoes packaged in Italy cost a lot more than them packaged in Germany simply because one has "Made in Italy" written on it.

Japan has very high wages + incredibly high land and real-estate prices. In overpopulated high income society there's nothing cheap. US is largely underpopulated, land prices and costs outside California or North-East states are much much cheaper than in Japan.

Fair enough, I did say that I believed the higher price was due to some of the reasons I listed prior, but I still can admit that you're right.

[Moanalua]

You've all made such good points; this is a great discussion we're having here. As a Pontiac fan, I still know that I want the brand back. I've been buying only Pontiacs for decades, and I've never been tempted to buy a Japanese car. In addition, all the Pontiacs I've bought have treated me well. I'd like to reaffirm the original thread: Pontiac really should return. It had (and I believe STILL has) a large, loyal following. Its red arrowhead has been an iconic, unchanging insignia. Pontiac is a strong legacy brand. I believe it's time for GM to bring it back. With the following it has, the brand could fly. It was outselling Buick two-to-one. The only thing that killed it was the Great Recession. That recession is over. Bring Pontiac back!

[Buslady]

Saturn's SKY shared platforms & very similar body style with Pontiac Solstice. Pontiac is far from unique. The Saturn VUE is shared with like 4 other GM vehicles!
GM screwed up everything-not this artificially created recession...they killed Saturn which I wasn't happy about, my poor VUE is an orphan now. I was going to go back to VW as my first car was a air cooled VW BUS....but no, their styling is run of the mill.

Honda Odyssey is my next, at least they tried to give it a sharper styling.

Fieros were fire traps.....saw too many in the junk yards BBQ'd.

I will say I liked the '83 Trans Am.....*insert Knight Rider theme here*....heheh....but the car itself sadly was junk. I heard you needed two....

[lerxstcat]

Pontiac's are great, I love choosing the Trans Am or GTO in my racing games, but you have to think about the big picture:

1. They weren't selling
2. They basically had the same model for every car manufacturer
3. We're in a recession.

I think if Pontiac was resurrected and didn't have a monkey as the CEO, then that'd be sweet, but it shouldn't be done until the economy is looking better. Nobody's buying new cars, so why should we bring back a brand that already failed?

*Redundant post is redundant*



Look on the streets man! They're cheaper and usually more reliable. If you somehow did get a bunch of tools to fund your toolbox brigade of bringing back Pontiac, and you wanted to make them in America, the price point would be way too high because of what you'd have to pay your employees; minimum wage, benefits, the whole shibang. Unless you and your buddies are just going to make them in your garage and sell them off like that.

Not to mention you'd have to make enough profit to keep your business afloat, =etivelike buying supplies, paying for your factory(ies), etc.

If they relocated the Pontiac factory to the Southeast where labor costs are less than half of those in the traditional automaking states, and it was a government-run company where executives were paid reasonable salaries and not bonuses for failure, it could be a completely different parqdigm, and cause competetive salaries to come back into the U.S. auto industry's executive levels - especially if the new Pontiac was cheaper and sold better than the Big 3's products.

[Nightbat]

I completely agree, but you have to admit that a US made car is going to cost a lot more to make than a Japanese car, because of expenses like employees and maybe even factory space.

Compare a USA Soloist to a Japanese Soloist, the prices are different, specs aren't much different, (but I do admit they still are), and I personally think that the higher price has to do with paying people to make the guitar in the USA, compared to Japan or China or surrounding countries.

Over here we only see "Exotic" american cars, not the family orientated models
They're expensive, but comparable to any other car in that same segment

Japanese cars otoh are in general almost always more expensive then their european counterparts here, their reliability is perhaps higher, but so is the price of parts

I see your comparison between US/Jpn guitars, and though there still is a difference in materials used, alot you're paying for on the US models is sentiment
"Made in USA, because those are 'real' guitars"

Maybe that sort of marketing works on guitars (absolute luxury items), but the US automotive industry should realize by now that it doesn't apply to cars
(neccessity items, especially in your country) though I give a wink to Corvette for giving a lot of bang-for-buck in the higher end sportscar segment

So that's what my little rant against VoiceX3 about "Made in America" was about

Back to ressurecting Pontiac?

Apart from doing it for the wrong reasons , the current market just doesn't allow it, too many competitors, to little customers
Unless Pontiac can bring in a car at an "introduction price" and keep it cheap, they won't make it
and that "introduction price" is unobtainable without putting a PoS on the market the likes of Daewoo or Kia

[Moanalua]

But what would be the "wrong" reasons for resurrecting Pontiac? Also, if there are too many competitors, then I would suggest that Buick, Daewoo, or Kia should go:
1. Pontiac was outselling Buick two-to-one. So, dump Buick and let Pontiac take
its place. Buick sells in China? Then sell Buick in China only, resurrect Pontiac,
and sell Pontiac in the US only.
2. If Daewoo and Kia are making PoS (pieces of sh*t), as you say, then why are
THEY still around? If there's room for them, there's room for Pontiac.
3. A cheap Pontiac would be necessary? Well, that's the G5.

Resurrect Pontiac!

[Nightbat]

1. Pontiac is gone, Buick, daewoo and Kia are here, they are not gonna leave, it's gonna cost a lot more to start up pontiac while there is hardly room for it
because:

2. The PoS Cheap market is already filled by PoS cheap cars, so you want to make Pontiac a PoS competitor fine
but in that segment the cheap korean labour will always win

3. fine, set up a factory, release the G5 and be in debt for decades because of the fierce competition

[Moanalua]

1. Buick, Daewoo, and Kia are here, but there's no guarantee that "they're not gonna leave." If Pontiac went under, so could any of THOSE three brands.

2. If GM starts-up Pontiac now, it'll be a lot cheaper than if they wait. It can be plugged right back into the GMC/Buick division, where it once was. Not only that; it would give that division a lift. In terms of sales, GMC is holding its end, but I don't think Buick is holding ITS end.

3. I don't think South Korean labor is THAT cheap. Also, they've been having labor unrest recently over pay, so that would tend to put upward pressure on their wages anyway. Further, if Chevy could compete with its Cobalt, I don't see why Pontiac couldn't compete with its G5.

4. Fierce competition? Every brand is facing that, including Chevy and Buick. And if we're talking about inexpensive cars, Pontiac would certainly be in a better position to compete than would Buick.

[RacerX]

1. Buick, Daewoo, and Kia are here, but there's no guarantee that "they're not gonna leave." If Pontiac went under, so could any of THOSE three brands.

Hahahaha! Buick is not gonna leave! Daewoo is a joke and not relevant in the US market. Kia sales have been on a huge upward direction with a lot of fairly nice models being introduced.

2. If GM starts-up Pontiac now, it'll be a lot cheaper than if they wait. It can be plugged right back into the GMC/Buick division, where it once was. Not only that; it would give that division a lift. In terms of sales, GMC is holding its end,

Keep dreaming! GM will not "bring Pontiac back". It's dead, like Plymouth, Olds & now Mercury. Has any major auto manufacturer "brought back" a whole line after its death? (Mini doesn't count)

3. Further, if Chevy could compete with its Cobalt, I don't see why Pontiac couldn't compete with its G5.

Cobalt? Again, hahahahaha! It was a joke, with high sales from poor "America-firsters" in the heartland. The Cruze is generations better than the Cavalier/Cobalt, and needed to be.

4. Fierce competition? Every brand is facing that, including Chevy and Buick. And if we're talking about inexpensive cars, Pontiac would certainly be in a better position to compete than would Buick.

Pontiac's dead, Zed. Chevy will be the GM brand (attempting to) compete in the small car market. Unfortunately, they are still holding on to the Aveo, but will call it something else (still made by Daewoo though - see above?). Chevy really needs to make better small cars in-house, or farm it out to a better manufacturer (Kia/Hyundai?). The 800 lb gorillas in the small car market will continue to be Toyota & Honda, but watch out for Hyundai's eating away of market share with their various (improved) Kia models and neat stuff like the Elantra (stylish, cheap & economical - mainly due to light weight).

[Nightbat]

Moanalua, Ron put it down as good or better as I put it

Recap: Pontiac, too expensive, too dangerous, you're better off putting your taxdollars in healthcare, at least you get to see something for it in return

Chevy really needs to make better small cars in-house, or farm it out to a better manufacturer (Kia/Hyundai?).

Chevy (daewoo) are 'consumer cars' in the sense they last as long as a year then their monetary and mechanical value are crap
Kia is among those same 'values'

Nowy Hyundai,...
There's a manufacturer with potential

[Moanalua]

1. How is Pontiac "too expensive"? And BUICK isn't too expensive?
2. How is Pontiac "too dangerous"? And Chevy is "safe?"
3. No one said Pontiac has to specialize in the "economy crap" market. That's not
Pontiac's focus, anyway. Pontiac was the performance/sport brand, yet it was
versatile enough to compete in the economy market with such cars as the G5.
4. Yes, Hyundai has potential, and I see it eventually competing with Buick.
Notice how Hyundai has been trying to go upscale over the past year or two?
That sounds like trouble for Buick. Pontiac, again, would be in the
performance/sport market.

[MetalHeadMat]

1. How is Pontiac "too expensive"? And BUICK isn't too expensive?
2. How is Pontiac "too dangerous"? And Chevy is "safe?"

1. Because Buick is still making cars, and therefore doesn't need to start up again.
2. Chevy has more models, and models that Pontiac had. Pontiac wasn't too special. If you redesign the whooooooole line of cars, then maybe it'd be more safe.

[Moanalua]

GM has been engaged in badge engineering for decades. GM doesn't HAVE to redesign the whole line of Pontiac cars. Remember, the only thing that did Pontiac in was the Great Recession. It's not like anything was inherently wrong with the Pontiac line. Pontiac was outselling Buick two-to-one. The recession is over. By resurrecting Pontiac, GM can throw its hat back into the ring and be a strong player again in the performance/sport market. Pontiac has STRATEGIC value for GM. Not only that; Pontiac is a strong legacy brand. All of these would be useful to GM.

[MetalHeadMat]

GM has been engaged in badge engineering for decades. GM doesn't HAVE to redesign the whole line of Pontiac cars. Remember, the only thing that did Pontiac in was the Great Recession. It's not like anything was inherently wrong with the Pontiac line. Pontiac was outselling Buick two-to-one. The recession is over. By resurrecting Pontiac, GM can throw its hat back into the ring and be a strong player again in the performance/sport market. Pontiac has STRATEGIC value for GM. Not only that; Pontiac is a strong legacy brand. All of these would be useful to GM.

Badge engineering is absolutely no way to bring back a car company, especially in these times. As previously stated, Buick out sold Pontiac 13 to 4, (or something like that ). Why should you saturate the market with cars that all look the same? Pontiac should find a place to focus on in the market, like the economic friendly cars, cheapo cars, high performance, etc.

[Moanalua]

1. Badge engineering is no longer viable? Someone had better tell GMC. Its trucks
are clearly badge-engineered Chevys. GMC seems to be surviving. Someone had
better also tell Lexus. Lexuses are obviously badge-engineered Camrys. Is
Lexus in trouble? Isn't it the top Japanese luxury brand?
2. In the DOMESTIC market, Pontiac outsold Buick two-to-one. Are you including
Chinese sales in Buick's figures? Well, maybe you should factor-in Pontiac's
Canadian sales. Pontiac sold well in Canada, if we're going to drag-in foreign
markets.
3. GM doesn't seem to have problems with saturating the market with TRUCKS
that "all look the same." We're talking, of course, about GMC trucks and Chevy
trucks. Why not with cars? Especially when Pontiac has such a large following.
4. Again, Pontiac DID have a focus in the market: The performance/sport niche.