Resurrect Pontiac! Create jobs, help the economy. Who's with me?

[RacerX]

Someone had
better also tell Lexus. Lexuses are obviously badge-engineered Camrys. Is
Lexus in trouble? Isn't it the top Japanese luxury brand?

ONE Lexus model - out of a solid dozen - is, the ES. Your generalizations and arguments are getting increasingly pathetic.

4. Again, Pontiac DID have a focus in the market: The performance/sport niche.

Sport? What, the Fiero? Bonneville? The Solstice? Performance, I'll give you: Trans Am (badge-engineered Camaro, ended in 2002) and GTO (badge-engineered Holden sold - poorly - for only 2 years 04-06).

Anyway, I'm sure all your arguments were bandied about in the GM boardrooms a few years ago, and all got shot down. You sure seem hot & bothered by this subject; do you have any Jacksons or Charvels?

[RacerX]

I just checked: all 11 of your 11 posts are in this 1 thread!

[tooslowhand]

I think GM should have gone farther and pared their brands down to two: Chevrolet and Cadillac. Parts of GM's problem was that they were bogged down with something like 8000 dealerships selling all their different makes of essentially the same car whereas Toyota was managing to sell craploads of cars through only 3000. True, there are people who still buy GMC Trucks even though they are nearly identical to the cheaper Chevies, but if GMC were discontinued would they buy Fords?

[Moanalua]

ONE Lexus model - out of a solid dozen - is, the ES. Your generalizations and arguments are getting increasingly pathetic.

Sport? What, the Fiero? Bonneville? The Solstice? Performance, I'll give you: Trans Am (badge-engineered Camaro, ended in 2002) and GTO (badge-engineered Holden sold - poorly - for only 2 years 04-06).

Anyway, I'm sure all your arguments were bandied about in the GM boardrooms a few years ago, and all got shot down. You sure seem hot & bothered by this subject; do you have any Jacksons or Charvels?

1. I'm just responding to the original thread by VoiceX3. He (like myself) wants
Pontiac resurrected. Notice that he also made mention of SavingPontiac.org.
That shows that a lot more people besides he and I want the brand
resurrected.
2. Aren't almost all Lexuses badge-engineered Toyotas? We don't have to refer
only to the ES and the Camry.
3. Ever since the introduction of the GTO in '64, Pontiac has been considered GM's
performance/sport brand. Yes, that would include the Fiero, the Bonneville
(which was the sportiest of the GM models in that class), the Solstice, and I
would include the G8.
4. I don't know what was bandied-about in GM's boardroom. I DO know that
several organizations are making the case to GM that Pontiac should be
resurrected.
5. No, I have no Jacksons or Charvels. I'm just a Pontiac fan who responded to
the original thread by VoiceX3, and is trying to defend it.

[Hellbat]

1. I'm just responding to the original thread by VoiceX3. He (like myself) wants
Pontiac resurrected. Notice that he also made mention of SavingPontiac.org.
That shows that a lot more people besides he and I want the brand
resurrected.
2. Aren't almost all Lexuses badge-engineered Toyotas? We don't have to refer
only to the ES and the Camry.
3. Ever since the introduction of the GTO in '64, Pontiac has been considered GM's
performance/sport brand. Yes, that would include the Fiero, the Bonneville
(which was the sportiest of the GM models in that class), the Solstice, and I
would include the G8.
4. I don't know what was bandied-about in GM's boardroom. I DO know that
several organizations are making the case to GM that Pontiac should be
resurrected.
5. No, I have no Jacksons or Charvels. I'm just a Pontiac fan who responded to
the original thread by VoiceX3, and is trying to defend it.

1. Yes, at least you, voice, and the guy (or gal) who created savingpontiac.org
2. Lexus are built using the vast engineering assets that Toyota can bring to bear. They are built to a higher level of fit and finish and supported by a higher level of customer service. All reflected in the higher price.
3. I would consider the Corvette to be GM's sport brand. Didn't they intentionally cripple things that could outperform it to keep that distinction?
4. nothing to add.
5. You don't have to have Charvels or Jacksons to be a member here. But I would say you cross the line from fan to zealot if you are joining guitar message boards for the express purpose of posting in any random car thread.

[Moanalua]

Your fifth point is well taken. I joined the board just to respond to and support VoiceX3's thread. Perhaps it's time to bow out. Thank you.

[VoiceX3]

Ok, I'm back on this thread because you are ALL missing the point. GM won't resurrect Pontiac any time soon if they ever do.......HOWEVER, this is about outsiders who want to buy the nameplate model names a couple abandoned factories as well as original pontiac engine block/head designs to have a starting platform to base their engine designs from. This can happen and is quite logical.

by the way, foreign cars are so great? Here's ANOTHER Toyota recall just announced.

http://www.walletpop.com/2011/04/27/toyota-recalls-51-000-tundra-trucks/?a_dgi

Just keep buying those toyotas because they're engineered so well........

[Hellbat]

Yeah because domestic vehicles never face recalls...

http://specials.msn.com/A-List/Lifestyle/Ford-truck-recall.aspx?cp-documentid=26966282

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/07/gm-recalls-2011-chevy-silverado-and-gmc-sierra-heavy-duty-trucks-for-hill-start-fix.html

[lerxstcat]

Domestic vehicles DO face recalls, but that's not the point. The point is that if you're touting the superiority of Toyota that your point is open to debate due to the huge number of recalls Toyota has faced.

As for arguing AGAINST the revival of Pontiac - why? You don't have to buy one if you don't want to, but why would you want to prevent people who DO want to buy them from having that opportunity? Unless you own or work for a competing company, it doesn't make sense for you to oppose the idea. It would be like opposing the revival of Dean Guitars just because you don't want one personally. It's no skin off your ass; in fact as a taxpayer if the government could sell the name to a new company, we'd get some of that bailout money back. Why would you NOT want that? I don't get it.

[Hellbat]

I'm not arguing against the revival of Pontiac. If someone wants to take the reins and see if they can make it profitable, more power to them. If I were an American citizen though I'd revolt before I allowed my tax money to support it getting off the ground. It would have to be a privately run and funded venture.

[lerxstcat]

I'm not arguing against the revival of Pontiac. If someone wants to take the reins and see if they can make it profitable, more power to them. If I were an American citizen though I'd revolt before I allowed my tax money to support it getting off the ground. It would have to be a privately run and funded venture.

That's not what we're talking about, although I would not be against that at all! I would love to see the new Pontiac headquartered in a right-to-work (non-union) Southern state where labor costs less than half what it does in Michigan where it would provide jobs in a chronically depressed region of the country and be able to produce cars at a more competitive price. If the cars could be produced at lower costs and sold for lower prices, it'd benefit consumers and the government, repaying taxpayers for the bailout.

Since you are not an American taxpayer, it shouldn't bother you in either event, though!

[Hellbat]

As a human being it bothers me to see tax dollars funding private enterprise anywhere. But the world is a crooked place and it happens all the time.

[Nightbat]

That's not what we're talking about, although I would not be against that at all! I would love to see the new Pontiac headquartered in a right-to-work (non-union) Southern state where labor costs less than half what it does in Michigan where it would provide jobs in a chronically depressed region of the country and be able to produce cars at a more competitive price. If the cars could be produced at lower costs and sold for lower prices, it'd benefit consumers and the government, repaying taxpayers for the bailout.

Since you are not an American taxpayer, it shouldn't bother you in either event, though!

You're not seeing the pitfall here?
GM, Ford etc. will see a drop in sales and start laying off people

You don't have to be a nation's taxpayer to understand a little about economy

[lerxstcat]

You're not seeing the pitfall here?
GM, Ford etc. will see a drop in sales and start laying off people

You don't have to be a nation's taxpayer to understand a little about economy

Not necessarily. How do you know those buyers wouldn't choose a Japanese or Korean car if a Pontiac wasn't available to them? Assuming they would only take buyers from other American makers is a fallacy. Maybe these buyers are disgusted with other American brands. Maybe they'd just keep driving and repairing their old Pontiacs if Pontiacs are really what they want. Also, from my POV in Mississippi, if they built a new Pontiac factory here and hired a bunch of locals, I really don't care if a GM or Ford factory in Michigan lays off people. The economy HERE will improve and that concerns me more. Nothing against the workers at the other factories, but people here are more willing to work because our economies have been depressed for 140 years.

[Nightbat]

"Thank god it's them, not us"

I thought you cared about the welfare of the American taxpayer?
where does 'relocating' unimployment benefit consumers and the government?