Looking to build home studio, need advice

[eakinj]

I remember there either being a sticky at one time or a thread had been suggested to be put up as one. couldn't find it.

So here's my question, I am looking to build a home studio using protools 9, i have several friends who record with protools so i have a support structure for the software. So I was thinking about buying a bundled package and to use as a point of reference and price i looked at musicians friend

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/presonus-studiolive-24-pro-tools-9-package/486274000000000

Would this be pretty much all I would need as far as the recording studio (Not including mic's and all that just the base studio monitors and mixer) is this a decent deal or is it inflated? Is there somewhere else i should be looking for a bundle?

thanks for any positive advice

[Shawn Lutz]

you dont really need a physical mixr. You just need a PC to run protools with an audio interface, mic preamps and speakers.

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.family&ID=PTSBundles

[Twitch]

I depends on what youre wanting to do. If youre just wanting to record your own riffs and play around, then what Shawn posted will be great. If youre wanting to record a whole band, then youll want more like what you linked to, though that price seems a bit extreme.

[Cliff]

Here's the sticky:

http://www.jcfonline.com/threads/24055-Newc-s-Home-Recording-Handbook-Lvl-1-Beginners

[eakinj]

Here's the sticky:
http://www.jcfonline.com/threads/240...vl-1-Beginners

Thats the one! thank you, I didn't think to look in mp3's..

Actually at some point I hope to be recording a full band, two guitar bass, drums and vocals so.

[Twitch]

Thats the one! thank you, I didn't think to look in mp3's..

Actually at some point I hope to be recording a full band, two guitar bass, drums and vocals so.

Then youre gonna want to be able to record at least 8 channels at once. Thats either going to require one of the more expensive interfaces, or do what my band has done, buy a multi input sound card and use a normal 16 channel mixing board that has individual outputs for at least 8 of the channels. Our card was $199 and we already had the computer, mixing board, mics, cables and 8 channel snake. Even to buy all that though, you could easily do it for $1k or less, $2k tops if you get a more recent computer, nicer used board and brand new mics and snake.

[eakinj]

Then youre gonna want to be able to record at least 8 channels at once. Thats either going to require one of the more expensive interfaces, or do what my band has done, buy a multi input sound card and use a normal 16 channel mixing board that has individual outputs for at least 8 of the channels. Our card was $199 and we already had the computer, mixing board, mics, cables and 8 channel snake. Even to buy all that though, you could easily do it for $1k or less, $2k tops if you get a more recent computer, nicer used board and brand new mics and snake.

Cool, i'm saving all this to a .doc file

[Twitch]

Cool, i'm saving all this to a .doc file

Remember too, that mixing and editing can be done elsewhere, and probably should be. We use our P.A. to monitor tracks while recording, sure it wont sound the greatest that way, but its just to make sure youve got the job done. If we want to mix and edit, we send it to a guy or do it our selves on another computer with damn good headphones.

[Devotee]

Well to record a full band at once and do a really good job of it, you'll need more than just 8 channels but anyway. You'll need at least 8 channels just for the drums.

I don't recommend buying bundles of anything. My advice to you is to find a high-quality multi-channel interface, check out this article for help. You don't need a mixing desk or console since you're using a DAW. The most important thing in a studio are the monitors, this will depend mainly on your budget, interface and your studio so do some research. I have a pair of KRK R5s which i got brand new for £250 (~$400), they are perfect little active speakers for home studio recording because they have great flat frequency response across all bands even at low levels, with minimal colouration of the sound overall. Of course, there are much higher-end speakers that will give you better results but as i said, it all depends on your budget. But if there's one thing you're going to shell out on, make it the monitors.

[Devotee]

Twitch, there's no reason mixing and editing should be done elsewhere if you have everything already down in ProTools and the expertise to do it yourself. Mixing with headphones is not always a good idea by the way.

[Twitch]

Twitch, there's no reason mixing and editing should be done elsewhere if you have everything already down in ProTools and the expertise to do it yourself. Mixing with headphones is not always a good idea by the way.

It a matter of giving your ears a break and having a third party view(youll ALWAYS be biased towards whatever instrument is yours or prefer). If you are going to do it yourself, dont do it the same day you tracked, and when you do get to editing and mixing, do it only for a couple hours at a time. Headphones are to somewhat eliminate distraction and to really look for garbage you may have missed through the monitors. Ive been doing band recordings in some capacity since 06, and while Im far from expert, Ive learned a few things over the years.

[Twitch]

Well to record a full band at once and do a really good job of it, you'll need more than just 8 channels but anyway. You'll need at least 8 channels just for the drums..

Think about this statement for a minute, is everyone just gonna get their track perfect the first time and not have to go back and re do it?? Ok, this method works for a mediocre recording, to do it right, there will be mistakes, and you will want to correct them. Since youre going to go back over them for a quality recording, you really only need 8 inputs. We use 7 for our drums, and in my opinion, its almost excessive. We mic the drums with 7 mics and reserve 8 for a scratch track. Once you get the drums down with as few mistakes as humanly possible, to a click track, then you move on to recording everyone else. Unless everyone one is a god on their instrument, you just dont record in a live setting in one take and leave it. Since youre going to redo tracks, it makes no sense to have everyone do their parts more than needed. Have the drummer get his tracks right, then everyone else layers over that. Believe me when I tell you its much more efficient this way and less tiring for those that had to play the 5 extra times waiting on the drummer to get the foundation right. Not to mention this way requires practically no isolation to prevent bleed over. To record in a live situation, you have to have the drums and each instrument isolated from the others. You dont want drums bleeding through into the guitars, and guitars into the drums, and the other guitarist into your amps mic, etc.. Its just a mess and unnecessary.

1. You track the drums
2. You track the bass

Once you have the foundation laid, you move on to the frame. Just like building a house.

3. guitars, at least 2 tracks from each guitarist
4. solos, layered as well, but to taste
5. vocals
6. any extra stuff, like synth filler stuff

To do a recording this way, you dont need anymore than 8 inputs at a time.

[Twitch]

Heres the card we use, its excellent for the price, a little back dated, but its excellent.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/m-audio-delta-1010-lt-pci-digital-audio-computer-interface/701376000000000

Heres just one option for an 8 channel snake, new.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/av-link-49-8-channel-xlr-female-xlr-male-stage-snake/339003000000925

Heres the drum mic pack similar to what we have, new. We bought ours used and are the F series(F10, F15 etc,) We bought our used around $300 years ago.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/audix-fp7-drum-mic-pack/h06485000000000

The Sure SM57 you can pick up for around $75 used all day long, cheaper if you hunt. Its all youll need to get the guitars tracked adequately.

As far as the computer, know what computer youre going to use BEFORE you buy the computer interface preferably, but you can hunt the PC or Mac around what interface you bought, but its a bit more tricky that way. The computer we use I already had on hand and only had to upgrade the memory to 2GB and install a larger HD. You WILL need a computer with at least 2GB of RAM and a minimum of a 100GB HD. Any processor over 1.6 Ghz will do fine, single or dual core. A computer like what I had can be acquired at a pawnshop or CL for $150 tops and Frys for the RAM and HD for around the same(its old). You can go newer, but stay away from Vista/7 for a DAW, at least for now. Go XP or Mac.

Adding a little extra for price variances and buy the drum pack new, we have a total of $1200 so far.

Notice, this doesnt include an external mixing board. The card named above has a virtual board you can use, but 6 of the inputs dont have preamps on the card, ins 1 and 2 do.

To add a external board, well add another $500 to be extravagant, new total, $1700. Were still a long way from $5000, and Ive been liberal with a few of the prices. A simple small PA and a couple of monitors can be used to monitor the session, which most bands already have(dont mix, edit with these monitors).

[Endrik]

You have to think things through. First do you know why you want Pro Tools without Pro Tools hardware? Then have you considered what will your studio be used for and do you have plans to upgrade it in the future?

Consider this, after good musicians and good instruments good sound starts from good recording gear: good mics, good preamps and good converters if you record to DAW. Consider that you'll need a variety of good microphones and good microphones are not cheap. Great German condenser mics are ridiculously expensive but luckily there's pretty good alternatives. For example instead of U87 which costs over $3K you can use something like Rode NT-2 which costs ten times less... and of course you need at least two. If you put your budget together always consider that you need to spend a lot of money on microphones.
Then you need good preamps. Good preamps usually come in 2 channels or less. And by good preamp I mean something that colours your sound in a good way, something that gives you punch and warmth. Something like two channel Presonus ADL 600 costs $2K, there's some good Neve clones you can get for less than $2K. You need at least two channels of top notch preamps. If you record instruments separately then you can record all of them through it. And if you record a drum set then your best sounding overheads would go through them and the the rest of the mics can go through not so expensive preamp channels.
Then you need good converters so there would be no signal losses. Apogee makes excellent converters, not cheap! If you go with full Pro Tools system then you don't need extra converters.

Good musicians are usually capable of recording their own music with pretty good results - and I mean purely sound wise.
If you just record and invest in top notch recording gear then you most likely will be fine.

But if you also want to do mixing then consider this. Most musicians suck at mixing. Mixing requires a lot of skill and takes years to be even average on it.
If you want to mix at your home studio then not only your recording room has to sound great but also your mixing room. And your mixing room should have badass monitors. Mackie doesn't make badass monitors. For example good Genelecs can cost thousands of dollars but luckily you don't need that expensive stuff.
Then you need shit loads of gadgets. Wether you use outboard gear, plug-ins or both they all require some serious investment. You can't do a serious job without some good compressors, top notch verbs/delays etc.

If you have a fixed budget then you can spend money on good recording gear or you can spend your money buying all kinds of mediocre stuff so you'd have an illusion that you can do everything.

[Twitch]

I agree with you Endi, but I dont think hes looking at making money with it. I 100% agree with you, but I dont think hes looking for something this extravagant, at least if he was, I missed that context clue. Youre talking $10,000 t0 $20,000(if not more) here, he was shitting a brick over $5000.