Fail pic for Ron....

[Axegrinder87]

I don't want to go into too much detail, but yes, quality does suffer.

To add some hard fact to the wonderful point you just made VG, about 70% of the workforce at BMW in Spartanburg, SC is temporary. Many folks have been there for over 2 years, and still not hired on permanently by BMW. The pay rate for production at BMW through MAU (their exclusive temp agency) is $15/hour. BMW employees get a starting pay of $17/hour once finally hired on.

Surprising to some of you, that's actually decent money here. The cost of living is modest, compared to the DC Metro area I moved from. Still underpaid however.

The company I work at, to remain nameless for obvious reasons, pays even less. We also only piss test new employees, though random hair tests are being established soon.

[bratfink]

Manufacturing engineers for these companies spend a lot of time (and money) designing a process that results in no loss of quality through poor workmanship.

The result is ultimately they can hire temps with little or no training and throw them on the line and not care about how hard or well they work, the only thing they have to watch is that they keep up with the line. This is even the way Aston Martins and Bentleys are built now, although the line moves much slower at those plants, but the workers aren't paid much more.

Believe it or not the manufacturers actually pay more per hour for temps than they do for their full time employees. If the temps are on $15/hr and the full time are $17/hr I bet the manufacturer is paying the temp agency $25/hr. Here's the rub, The agency give's little or no benefits to it's employees and since they are on contract basis they don't even have to guarantee employment opportunities. The manufacturer can obtain and cut workers within a weeks notice without having to go through the whole HR process, if they don't like the look of someone they call the agency and they are gone. So despite the higher hourly cost they save on a whole bunch of benefits that they don't need to offer anymore.

What happens to that extra $10/hr? It goes in the agencies pockets and, depending on state laws, they don't have to offer any benefits packages to the employee either, so how exactly do they deserve to earn off the temps backs? Welcome to the scam of the 21st century. If I were a smart man and had no morals I'd own a temp agency.

[VitaminG]

it's a beaut, isn't it? Don't know exactly how it works there but over here, temps & casuals get no mandated super, no sick pay, no annual leave, if they don't work they don't get paid, can be dismissed much more easily.

Permanent & permanent part-time staff may earn a lower rate, but not by much, and they must be allowed 4 weeks annual leave (pro rata for part-timers), sick pay, at least a 9% contribution to their superannuation, and the longer they have worked for your company the more notice of termination they are entitled to.

[Nightbat]

Why would a temp have any 'honour' -and with that- put effort in his job if he'll be out on his ass at a blink and a fart anyway?
people will only remain motivated if they can achieve a goal (financial security/steady paycheck in this case)


If you guys wanna change your nation's workethics, the most improbable example is the french and russian revolution
I'm not steering you to communism (those were just another bunch of wankers abusing power) but if rich people get scared -and are placed in a postion- of losing power, they tend to
be much more generous, willing and giving

The trick is finding decent people to govern, alas, no such person exists in politics or business

[RacerX]

If you guys wanna change your nation's workethics, the most improbable example is the french and russian revolution
I'm not steering you to communism (those were just another bunch of wankers abusing power) but if rich people get scared -and are placed in a postion- of losing power, they tend to
be much more generous, willing and giving

The trick is finding decent people to govern, alas, no such person exists in politics or business

+1 you wise Dutchman you

[Sephiroth]

I don't want to go into too much detail, but yes, quality does suffer.

To add some hard fact to the wonderful point you just made VG, about 70% of the workforce at BMW in Spartanburg, SC is temporary. Many folks have been there for over 2 years, and still not hired on permanently by BMW. The pay rate for production at BMW through MAU (their exclusive temp agency) is $15/hour. BMW employees get a starting pay of $17/hour once finally hired on.

Surprising to some of you, that's actually decent money here. The cost of living is modest, compared to the DC Metro area I moved from. Still underpaid however.

The company I work at, to remain nameless for obvious reasons, pays even less. We also only piss test new employees, though random hair tests are being established soon.

And this is my problem with unions. $15/hour for someone who does a sloppy job is more than generous, but unions think "hey we want this much money so we should get it regardless of the job or qualifications or anything." What you want and what the market rates for the job are are two different things.

And being in a union does not improve quality. All it means you can drop out of school and automatically get a job that averages more money per year than the average college-level job just because you're the son of a union member.

they also save millions by exploiting and underpaying their American employees (they should be grateful that they have a job at all, right? under threat of their job being moved to SE Asia) who don't enjoy the collective protection of a union and have been brought up to understand that all unions are evil. This allows the company to wave the flag and toot the Made in America horn while enjoying a workforce who still can't afford to buy the product they are producing. If they really scrimp and save (and don't get sick), they might be able to afford that double-wide they've always dreamed about. And the plant owners can ensure they justify their ridiculous salaries by maximising profits for their shareholders.

The US could quickly remedy this awful situation though by employing a president whose family businesses would directly profit from this practice. That would see a boom in production moving to those right-to-work states.


interesting. So the quality does suffer?

Because that guy at the airport who backs up planes with his go-cart thingy totally deserves $60k a year with his GED education. Because city bus drivers totally deserve $18/hour just for driving a bus. The workers are the ones doing the exploiting in unions.


Once again what you want is not the same thing as what you should get paid, especially for work that doesn't exactly require extensive education and training.

[Nightbat]

Once again what you want is not the same thing as what you should get paid, especially for work that doesn't exactly require extensive education and training.

Yeah you're right, people throwing out their backs within 20 years doing uneducated physical labour should be content with $8
same as the cleaners polishing shit out of the bowl

a few years back the politicians here gave themselves a 30% raise because 'the government needed good people and such an incentive will attract competent people'
My country also needs good: nurses, welders, constructionworkers, cleaners, truckdrivers, etc

..unfortunatly since apparently everyone can do those jobs (yet no-one wants to) these sectors can go fuck themselves
(and in fact lost 1% purchasing power that same year)

if everyone gets a job as bookkeeper or manager, who the fuck is gonna clean your toilet and collect your trash?

[toejam]

Except Kia has a $1 billion factory in Georgia:

http://www.businessweek.com/blogs/eyeonasia/archives/2009/11/koreas_kia_open.html

Also, they are hiring: http://www.kmmgusa.com/

Kia is still a South Korean company, and most of the money is going back there.

[RacerX]

Kia is still a South Korean company, and most of the money is going back there.

I know what you're saying, Joe but (BTW technically Kia is owned by Hyundai) since profit margins on automobiles are fairly small, I'd say "most" of the money is going towards those local (American) workers in Georgia and domestic parts suppliers.

[bratfink]

I know what you're saying, Joe but (BTW technically Kia is owned by Hyundai) since profit margins on automobiles are fairly small, I'd say "most" of the money is going towards those local (American) workers in Georgia and domestic parts suppliers.

Wrong on both counts. Most of the profit is made by the finance companies. So where ever the finance company that Kia/Hyundai is based is where the money is going. There is little profit to selling a car and not much more in servicing a car. The real money is in the amazing 0% credit deal that you thought was too good to be true (because it is), the reality is that you will end up paying twice for the car by the time you have finished all the payments.

[Shawn Lutz]

fail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ie2i...layer_embedded

[javert]

fail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ie2i...layer_embedded

That video is funny in so many ways! Wait... at least in two ways!

[Axegrinder87]

I count 3. The cholo who can't even play Enter Sandman correctly, the douche with the microphone, and the dumb drunk bitch.

[RacerX]

There is little profit to selling a car

I already said that, so you're wrong to say I'm wrong Also, Hyundai DOES own Kia.

and not much more in servicing a car.

Also wrong. What kind of car do you drive?

The real money is in the amazing 0% credit deal that you thought was too good to be true (because it is), the reality is that you will end up paying twice for the car by the time you have finished all the payments.

Yes, F & I is quite the ripoff, but a lot of folks are getting smarter about it, financing through credit unions, etc.

[javert]

Also wrong. What kind of car do you drive?

I've been wondering lately if the business model behind those cheap cars all the manufacturers have been putting on the market (at least here in Europe) in the past few years are similar to that of the razor manufacturers': you get the kit fairly cheap and then you pay through the nose for the new razor blades.