Handgun gurus: Need some input

[sixx_ gunner]

I want to get back into target and combat course shooting. I have had the Sig Sauer P220 in .45 and the last one was a H&K USP .45. I did very well with both but was checking them out today at a local shop and the prices are OH Fking WOW! $1100 for the H&K! $899 for the Sig. It's been about 10 yrs since I was running those circles of gun courses. Now that I am in FL, I want to get another handgun and get back into these competitions. Where is the best place to pick up a piece at a great price? My girl wants to get into these with me and is looking at the 9mm's but unsure of what she really likes. She loved the Bersa's but I have never tried one. I have been thru the armours course for Glock & Sig Sauer. I was trying to steer her towards these, but she couldn't find one she felt comfortable with.
I used the Shotgun News to get deals in the past. Is there a better place/source for picking up these and supplies?
Thanks for you input.

[tonemonster]

Have her try a Springfield Armory XD-9 compact or sub compact. I have the sub compact and love it. XD's have a great rep for reliability. I have Sig's too, and like Glocks as well. but if I only could have ONE gun, it would be a SA XD-9 they are damn fine guns. I have a buddy that was a warrant officer in the special forces and he is retired now, he does firearms courses and training, and he has shot practically any make and model out there over the years, and he chooses an XD. He said he would trust his life to it in any military event.

I always recommend 9mm too. For the cost of ammo these days, .40 or .45 will put you in the poor house. you can get 9mm cheap from sportsman's guide. that WOLF ammo. I have used it for years without a failure. some people complain that its dirty. big deal, you clean your gun after practice sessions anyway.

as far as where to get a deal on the gun.....I dont know. Ask around your area, talk to people at shooting clubs, etc... they may be able to steer you to a reputable gun shop with good prices.

[Vass]

Only thing I've heard about wolf is that both the jackets and the cases are steel, which can be a little rougher on the gun than brass and copper. They also had that lacquered case stuff that I believe guys had problems with in AR15s.

I don't shoot enough anymore to have it make a difference, I guess. Back when I did I used to hit up ammoman.com and cheaperthandirt.com. Did ok there.

I see some folks now complain that the steel jackets do damage to indoor ranges. I suppose that could be true.

Also see the claim that it's the steel cases not flexing to give a good seal letting powder blow back into the action that makes em dirty rather than the powder being used.

Anyway, give me a Kimber any day...

[SEEGERMANY]

I just bought two pistols, the Baretta PX4 .45 and the Walther PPK/S in .380. I've tried several .45's including Kimber, Ed Brown, Clark Customs and even though the Baretta seems a bit bulky, it's the easiest to aquire your target. Plus, it has been 100% reliable right out of the box. Not one single malfunction. The Kimber has been sent back to the factory twice. Now, I have no confidence in it. Try the Baretta, I think you'll like it.

P.S. I run the following ammo through the Baretta:

Federal Premium 165 Grain Hydra Shok JHP
Hornady 200 Grain XTP
Speer 230 Grain Gold Dot HP
Fiocchi 200 Grain Extrema XTP FMJ
Federal Classic 185 Grain Hi-Shok JHP
Speer 230 Grain Lawman FMJ

[DonP]

Can someone point me in the direction of a Handgun's for Dummy's page?

I really don't have a clue as to the reason you'd pick a 9mm or a .40 or a .45 or a .38, or any of the other reasons you'd pick one gun over another.

I have a 1936 German Luger I inheritted, so should I stick to 9mm guns to save money on ammo by having only one choice of round?

I usually hear a Sig is a very good gun. I have a Sig bb gun and like the feel of it.

Help? I go into a pawn or gun shop and see all these guns and don't have a clue. I guess it would be the same kind of story if I was a gun collector looking for a first guitar.

[Vass]

Well some questions back at you....

What do you want to use it for? Home defense, concealed carry, target, all of the above? If all of the above, which is most important?

Are you the only user or will there be others? Are you a big or little guy? Big or little hands? How about the other user? How much time can you convince the other user to practice and learn about the gun?

How often will you go shooting (if not a lot, who cares how expensive the ammo is).

Basically every caliber you mentioned is acceptable for home defense and carry, although I would not buy a .38 but instead would buy a .357, which can chamber and fire .38 no problem but can also go magnum if you want the extra power.

No reason IMO to do a lot of shooting with the Luger. That's a collectors piece number one
and number two I don't know that the more modern high pressure/velocity 9mm is going to be very good for it.

They can go for big bucks depending on a lot of little arcane things (just like guitars) and there is a very active collectors market for them.

[rjohnstone]

I'm a Smith 4506 fan. The particular model isn't made anymore, but can be found used in the $400-$600 range.
Fantastic .45, but might be too big for most women.
I also only use Remington ammo. Not cheap, but reliable.

I find most of the good used stuff on Guns America http://www.gunsamerica.com
Prices are still pretty high everywhere lately.

DonP, the caliber is mainly a personal preference thing.
I used to love 9mm, but then got hooked on .45 after trying out a friends 4506.

I prefer a .45 over a 9mm simply for the fact that it makes a bigger hole. Simply put, I only have to shoot the intruder once.

[DRM]

The Glock 19 is the most versatile 9mm pistol ever made, and arguably the finest. HK's P2000 is a close second, however, after years of shooting striker-fired pistols, I'll only accept an HK pistol with the LEM trigger.

The ergonomics of the USP's are doo-doo. If you want a .45 HK pistol, check out the HK45 and HK45C. HK changed the .45 ACP game with the HK45. The price is a little daunting, but you won't regret it. I bought myself an HK45 for my 21st birthday and it's my favorite handgun.

Avoid Sig. Their quality control has plummeted in recent years. Unless you can pick up a used West German Sig, don't bother. I own a P226 Elite and it's strictly a range toy. I would NEVER trust my life to a Sig. Ever. They've been losing federal and state contracts at an alarming rate. Kimber are in the same boat. Once a quality manufacturer, the only reason they survive nowadays is their marketing.

My recommendations for your girlfriend are to pick her up either a Glock 19 or Glock 17 (if she wants a full-size, go with the 17. But it's easier to CCW the 19 and the barrel is only .5" shorter). Glock's are low maintenace, cheap, and replacement parts are everywhere. And also, and most importantly, they're very accurate and very reliable. I've never cleaned my work pistol (Glock 17) and I've put over 10,000 rounds through it this year alone. It's due for some replacement parts eventually, but that'll come as needed.

For used pistols, check out gunbroker.com.

[sixx_ gunner]

Thanks to ALL for your input. She did try the Glocks, couldn't get comfortable with thier bulk. I have used Sig and HK almost exclusively since I worked for a sheriff's dept. in '95. I liked the Barreta's and some of the S&W's, but fell in love with the feel of my first Sig P220. I did not have any quality issues but will check more into that.
DRM, I was glad you chimed in on this. I tried several of the HKs but I want to say the one I REALLY liked had a 1911 feel on the grips, checkered-ish, extended magazine with a little bit of a hook on it, and it had ambidextrous safey/decocker and mag release and front rail.
Will have to go fondle some more to get a better feel. There is a range that you can try stuff before purchasing. I think that is our best option for her. She has not experience with handguns and there is a little fear factor going on. I want her to have al least a 9mm, but she is not so sure.
These will be mainly for the range/competitions but self defense as well at home.

[DRM]

sixx_gunner,

I was a little crunched for time in my first reply, but I'm on my lunch break now so I'll elaborate a little more.

Sig Sauer make great weapons, they really do. Compared to the cheaper priced alternatives like Kahr, Taurus, and Para Ordnance, they are a superior choice. However, Sig Arms (USA) is NOT Sig Sauer (Swiss/German). The P220's and P226's of the 90's are some of the most revered handguns of all time, and my dad's P226 I inherited is a wonderful pistol. I love the ergonomics of Sig's, and I especially love the de-cocker design compared to HK's. However, their quality control has utterly shit the bed in the past 6 years or so and it's ridiculous the prices they charge when a Glock or Smith & Wesson priced about 1/2 the cost of a P226 absolutely smoke it in every possible way apart from "culture".

I love 1911's, I really do. A quality 1911 like a Colt or Nighthawk just feels great. I mostly love the grip angle, and that's why I love the HK45. It's built to the same angle as Browning's original design, but given it has a polymer frame, it's lighter and more resistant to wear and tear than steel framed 1911's. Everything about the HK45 is wonderful...the O-ring on the barrel insures consistent accuracy and operation despite debris lodging itself in the frame, the trigger mechanism (stock) can be easily swapped at the operator level, the ambi controls are in natural positioning for most all shooters to operate comfortably, and I can operate the controls with gloved hands. Also, HK specifically designed the pistol to fire +P+ loads as well as to cycle suppressed. They are the only company at this time that offer a guarantee to function with +P+ as well as to conduct torture testing of their weapons with suppressors. I'll find an article someone typed up where he put 15,000 rounds through an HK45 without replacing any parts. It's incredible.

I bought my girlfriend a simple DA-only .38 special revolver for her purse and she's gotten very good at shooting it. I personally CCW my Glock 19, however I might pick up an HK45C to replace the G19. I love 9mm, and when shooting Winchester Ranger 124gr JHP I have similar ballistic performance to .45 ACP out to 35 yards. The lighter weight, lower recoil, and cheaper cost of 9x19mm vs .45 ACP is a major advantage to me given how often I shoot. However, the ergonomics of the HK could persuade me to switch over to carrying it in lieu of the Glock.

Best of luck picking up a weapon for your girl. I picked Jess up a S&W M&P 15-22 and a Walther P22 and she LOVES shooting now. It's cheap to feed a .22LR and best of all it gets her to the range with me. She's comfortable shooting "real" calibers now and she enjoys going to the range on her own. It's great.

[DRM]

Also, there's a saying in my line of work...

"Colt's and Kimber's are what you show your friends. Glock's and HK's are what you show your enemies."

I have never regretted an HK purchase. They are dead-nuts reliable and incredibly accurate. Not to mention the lifespan of their components compared to similar firearms. For instance, my HK416 has logged just under 15,000 rounds in the past two years and it still shoots 1.5 MOA from the bench with 75gr Hornady ammunition. That alone is worth the cost to me, given about 11,000 of those rounds were suppressed and I've run that rifle HARD.

The cost is a little daunting, but I promise you won't regret it.

[Inazone]

I picked up a Beretta PX4 Storm subcompact last December after shooting a Walther P22 for a couple years to get accustomed to shooting. I bought the PX4 mainly for comfort (same reason as the P22 before it) and because my wife was starting to show some interest in shooting. I spent the extra cash for adjustable sights, as the PX4 was shooting a little low and my vision is crappy enough that I really wanted to be able to fine-tune it. I was just at the outdoor range after work, and the Beretta is a real treat to shoot. Although I have no need to carry, I would be as comfortable as I can hope for using the PX4 in a home defense situation, and it was inexpensive enough that combined with the relatively low cost of 9mm ammo, I can afford taking it to the range and putting 100 rounds through it.

[TVTiZtiK]

Also, there's a saying in my line of work...

"Colt's and Kimber's are what you show your friends. Glock's and HK's are what you show your enemies."

I have never regretted an HK purchase. They are dead-nuts reliable and incredibly accurate. Not to mention the lifespan of their components compared to similar firearms. For instance, my HK416 has logged just under 15,000 rounds in the past two years and it still shoots 1.5 MOA from the bench with 75gr Hornady ammunition. That alone is worth the cost to me, given about 11,000 of those rounds were suppressed and I've run that rifle HARD.

The cost is a little daunting, but I promise you won't regret it.

You got a 416? Those things are sex. I would agree completely with on HK stuff. I've never owned a gun personally (not old enough) but I've shot a few in my time. HK's quality was blatantly apparent from the second I held one.

I actually have Gas BlowBack airsoft HK416, full metal, full trades and everything. Here's a pic: http://imgur.com/PvJm0

[SEEGERMANY]

I would NEVER trust my life to a Sig. Ever.

Glock's are low maintenace, cheap, and replacement parts are everywhere. And also, and most importantly, they're very accurate and very reliable. I've never cleaned my work pistol (Glock 17) and I've put over 10,000 rounds through it this year alone.

Yet you would trust your life to a dirty gun?

[Twitch]

Damn it, I think Ive got GAS for another gun, damn it. I got rid of the last one for a guitar. (yes, seems nothing takes precedence over my guitar gear) I do miss the feeling of having a gun tucked in the waistline at my hip.