Dave Mustaine: "God created whammy bars for people who don't know how to solo"

[KingVee]

Oh look, another Metallica vs Megadeth conversation...

I like Metallica. I just don't like them as much as I love Megadeth.

As far as Dave Mustaine saying all sorts of shit over the years. I just find it funny. He didn't give a fuck, and I certainly don't. People need to learn to take stuff to a lower level. TV, mags, the internet... They strive to stir shit up and always have made things look/sound worse than they actually were. It's entertainment, shit stew has and forever will interest people...

[VitaminG]

First time I heard Metallica, I was already listening to Iron Maiden, Gary Moore, Judas Priest, Yngwie Malmsteen, amongst others. Nothing they were doing particularly impressed me. They were certainly heavier than I was used to, but for arrangements & epic overly long songs, Maiden had them beat. All the fanboys telling me that Hamster was the greatest guitarist on the planet, I couldn't believe they wouldn't even take the time to listen to what Gary Moore & Yngyang were doing. Could Kirk play anything as cool as the Soldier Without Faith solo on Marching Out or Gary's Shapes of Things solo?

Megadeth, I had read about in Hit Parader but hadn't actually heard until around Peace Sells / So Far So Good. Straight away I knew I liked them better than anything I'd heard from Metallica. In the end, I have owned a bunch of 'Deth albums & cassingles on tape, bought many on CD. Had one taped copy of Master of Puppets which I would listen to but tune out during because none of the songs did much for me (didn't mind Battery though), and a burnt copy of Death Magnetic because a friend insisted that even though I'm not a fan, this album would turn me into one. Had it in the car stereo for a fortnight to let it sink in, gave the disc back to him, can't remember a single song off it. I believe the tape of MOP may be in a pile of unlistened-to cassettes somewhere around my house.

The new Anthrax album, is in the mix in the 6-disc changer in my new car, can sing along with a bunch of tracks. What does this tell me? After 20-something years, Metallica's 'return to form' strikes me as dull and forgettable, just as MOP did way back when. Not to say that it is bad, but just not for me.

Although it could be that I've just made all of that up and am just a former fan and present-day bandwagon jumper. Since everybody on the planet agrees that Metallica is the greatest band ever.

[Endrik]

KEA was a much smaller production than Killing is My Business. KEA was made in the East Coast by enthusiast. Killing is My Business was recorded in the legendary Indigo Ranch studio. The main reason why a mix either sounds good or bad is actually the arrangement of the song. Lars and James were always good at that. Dave wasn't when he made his first one, few are. + Metallica had Cliff who didn't wrote that much but had huge impact on the overall sound and arrangements.

[Trem]

See i was one of those who liked Killing is my Business a lot, yeah it sounded garage,
but i liked the intensity and in a way i just thought it was a prequel to something coming from them that was going to be huge. I probably listened to Garage Days more than MOP, in fact i know i did. For some reason MOP never really stuck with me that much, it's a great album a classic, but it just didn't stick with me much. I did like punk stuff and crossover stuff too.
I listened to Reign in Blood, Killing is my Business, Exodus Bonded by Blood, Voi Vod and SOD - not to mention Anthrax Spreading the Disease a little more more than Metallica at that time. Also the first i heard Metallica was with Dave Mustaine on the first Metal Blade compilation, and that sounded more like Killing is my Business than Kill em All. I think Metallica just got the right guy to mix their album, probably had some money backing ect. Otherwise if you listen to their demos that's probably more of what they would have sounded like. Megadeth probably recorded that first album with a lot less money and takes.
Dave wrote or helped write some of my favorite songs on Kill Em All, and Ron Macgovney (sp) wrote Whiplash, so that leaves like Seek And Destroy as basically James and Lars' main song on the album. Some of Daves stuff is even on Ride the Lightning.
Beyond that Peace Sells at the time when that came out, my circle of friends being kids and all, we were like "This is better than anything Metallica has done!"
But it's all good, all that stuff is classic and all great.
Reign in Blood owns them all, and is the standard period when even Metallica plays those riffs homage live.

[Endrik]

Like Crap?

yup, wether we like it or not.

No one copies MOP's production. But interestingly enough AJFA is copied, an album that sounded like crap, no bass and tiny drum sound (close mics upfront while usually Metallica has always been about big room sounds). But AJFA tour live recordings sound huge.


Slayer has grown on me though, never was a fan, thought that most of their stuff sounded like shit, I still think that all the really fast stuff on their old albums sounds messy.

[Nimitz]

and of course Slayer's "Reign of Blood" which set the standard on how extreme metal bands are going to sound

Like Crap?

[Endrik]

But honestly I'd like to know how many preferred very early Megadeth to early Metallica? Let's take the first half of the 80's. Metallica had made two albums, Megadeth one. All the first thrash albums sounded very punk-y but "Kill 'em All" sounded much tighter than the rest, specially if you compare it to Slayer's first releases. Megadeth's debut came out in '85 which had cool ideas but overall wasn't that great and didn't have much impact specially if you consider that Metallica released "Ride the Lighting" a year before and which didn't sound like a typical thrash metal album at all but something way more progressive and with much updated sound.

Metallica guys were some of the biggest innovators in metal when it came to sound and overall approach both live and in the studio. Thanks to their live sound guy, a hippie dude who still works with them today, they developed a massive sounding live mix, the first time when heavy music actually had really loud in your face kick drums etc. Everyone still tries to emulate their Justice tour live sound, even pop rock live mix engineers.

Metallica's debut which was made two years before the Megadeth's, sounds better, Metallica sounded more like an unit while Megadeth was pretty loose, Dave's rhythm hand wasn't even close to James', and even though Megadeth had a great drummer the band just wasn't very tight, Junior's bass was often all over the place. Metallica had the ability to make songs sound really good, the arrangements were great while Megadeth tunes often sounded like a bunch of ideas just thrown in together.

A good comparison is a tune that Mustaine wrote, "Four Horsemen"/"Mechanix". Metallica's two years older recording just sounds much better, the parts are played in better, the arrangements are better, the slower tempo made the tune heavier etc. Even Kirk's solo sounds better, even though Dave is a better guitarist. Funny, I think on KEA Kirk had his best lead tone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZvXqDwwBy4

Now Megadeth made a truly great album in '86, "Peace Sells..." but was overshadowed by so called the magnum opus of metal, "Master of Puppets" which set the standard in metal songwriting wise and of course Slayer's "Reign of Blood" which set the standard on how extreme metal bands are going to sound (and not only, even more trendier modern bands like Slipknot have their sound copied from Reign of Blood).

I believe that some folks never dug early Metallica but I don't believe there's many folks who preferred early Megadeth over early Metallica back in the day. After "Peace Sells..." I believe the "strictly Megadeth camp" grew but when it comes down to it the overwhelming majority is all about comparing the 90's/Marty-era Megadeth to Metallica.

[RobRR]

Just going by my experiences... I listeded to Endgame for probably 4-5 weeks straight. At work, in the car, at home... Its still one of my all time favorite albums! The solos are SICK, and thats just it... theyre super fast, super technical, but not very memorable. They dont have a "trademark" sound or feel to them if you get what Im sayin.

[VitaminG]

ITT: Metallica hate bandwagoners. Just jealous that they are successful and other bands aren't anywhere near their fame and hate on them because its the cool thing to do. U mad.

80s Metallica > 80s Megadeth

Early 90s Metallica = Early 90s MEgadeth

2000s Metallica < 2000s Megadeth

some people just can't accept that not everyone adores early Metallica. If it's a bandwagon, many of us were on it in '84. Metallica may have been the first metal band you heard back in the day and so you feel an eternal debt of gratitude to them. More power to you, everyone looks back on their first time with some fondness. Not everyone shares your experience though.

As for Kirk's playing ability or how memorable his solos may be, I can't recall a single one. Never listened to enough Metallica to remember any of them. I'm sure anyone who didn't listen to Megadeth would say the same thing about Marty's solos. Those who say that Chris isn't the player that Marty is because they can't remember the solos on the new album after listening to it twice, could you say the same about Marty back when? Or did you start to remember them after a half dozen listens over the first weekend you bought Rust In Peace? See if Broderick's solos seem a little more memorable after you've listened to them for a decade or so.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

[Nimitz]

[TKEblue]

Why don't we just ask dave what he thinks. He's the most honest, humble metal musician there is.

[tonemonster]

Oh boy, a metalica megadeth war.

I think Billzee's personal ball hygiene is the most valid part of this thread.

[Grim]

ITT: Metallica hate bandwagoners. Just jealous that they are successful and other bands aren't anywhere near their fame and hate on them because its the cool thing to do. U mad.

80s Metallica > 80s Megadeth

Early 90s Metallica = Early 90s MEgadeth

2000s Metallica < 2000s Megadeth

Wrong, Wrong, Right

[rstites]

Cliff was the pops among kids yet he was a hippy with a very obscure musical taste compared to the other guys. Lars was the metalhead, James and Kirk were more classic rock fans but if Cliff were alive I'm guessing Metallica would have eventually gone into some pretty experimental stuff. I personally would have loved it but for those who only love the classic albums and hate Load, Reload, St. Anger etc. Cliff's fantasy project would be even bigger abomination for them.

I agree. I think they would have gone more progressive and less rock. I actually would have enjoyed it as I enjoy the heavy end of progressive (Rush, etc.) quite a bit, but I think it would have gotten much of the same hate as the turn they actually took while almost certainly not garnering them the commercial success.

Actually, Kirk Hammett really does and a whammy can't save him.

It isn't the damn whammy, it's the wah on every single @#%@$^% solo that kills it for me. I love a bit of wah, but as an effect not as a integral part of the tone.*

* With some notable exceptions: Schenker could pull this off, but that was an open wah. Plus, it's Schenker!