You lucky bastards in Colorado and Washington.......TOKE AWAY!!!!!

[xenophobe]

Build more prisons, or just cram them in. The appeal of smoking dope might lessen with the very real prospect of being fucked hard in the showers by beefy black men. (Sit down Wilksy Baby, I know that sounds like heaven to you)

Welcome back to the 20th Century. It failed. And the irony is you're probably perfectly fine with alcohol. I honestly believe there shouldn't be a legal limit and if you're caught with even .01 blood alcohol when driving, you should be sent to prison for 1 year for each .01 you test with. If you're caught driving with .1, you should receive a life sentence.

[Cygnus X1]

Very cogent observations from our brothers on the other side of the pond.
I can't say that I have seen your experiences first hand because I have not.
But I have often wondered how a once great country of proud inventors became
what I see as a largely dependent society where innovation is not rewarded.

America, like Australia is full of people who left it all in order to make their own way.
That's the blood that runs through our culture.
Failure is just a part of success if the lesson is learned.

As for the drug issue, I've had my say.
I have not seen pot being a gateway to other harder drugs as a rule, just some people are
more addictive personalities that will always step it up and push their limits.
I'm not for legalization, but I am for decriminalization.
It should not be a felony, and pot is not a narcotic in the sense of the word that true
narcotics are.
It's a light hallucinogenic.

Rsmacker, I have also seen "pot heads" that never seem to come down and the lifestyle
is more of the downfall than anything.
It does make me wonder about the long term effects, but I really don't know for sure.
Casual weekend smokers probably don't fall into that category, so we never quite detect it.
Apparently there is enough proof of long term effects that it's zero tolerance in heavy industry for both drugs and alcohol.

We've had 30+year experienced steelmakers get fired on the spot for failing the breathalyzer, due to a hangover.

[atomic charvel guy]

I don't know what planet some people may have lived on, or the rules or setup of where some have lived or do live now,
but from the age of about 12, i could buy any particular drug as easily as a hot dog from a street vendor growing up in new york,
and let me tell you, it was really hard to get in trouble, you had to be the most fucked up person in the world to get popped,
busted, whatever you want to call it. law enforcement, even though they were all over the place, was not enforced.
i could write all night, i'm not saying it's right, and new york has been cleaned up hugely since my days there, but getting drugs
has never been a problem. i don't care what laws are put into place, this is america, people want to get fucked up,
and quickly i might add, and it's all out there and readily available, legal or not, and it always has been, and it always will be.
just the way it is , that's all i am saying. the law will never be able to shut down trillion dollar businesses. they never bust the major distributors,
and when they do (pablo escobar) someone else steps right into place. and let's not forget freeway ricky rose, and our "governments"
role in that situation. hypocrisy runs from the street all the way into the high offices, that's the sick part my friends.

[RacerX]

Fuckin ginsambo, write a fuckin book will ya?

[Rsmacker]

Welcome back to the 20th Century. It failed. And the irony is you're probably perfectly fine with alcohol. I honestly believe there shouldn't be a legal limit and if you're caught with even .01 blood alcohol when driving, you should be sent to prison for 1 year for each .01 you test with. If you're caught driving with .1, you should receive a life sentence.

Well, when that is proposed, debated, voted and legislated, to become enshrined in law, then fair enough, I will abide by your law or take the punishment. Just like the current legislation which outlaws marijuana..(yet apparently some people think it doesn't apply to them, they can pick and choose which laws they obey)

Personally, I don't touch a drop when driving, and certainly don't drive the day after a session on the pop. One of the things that astounds me about America (or rather, the parts I have visited) is the amount of people who drink with no regard to the fact they are driving. I don't mean getting totally sloshed, but going to a bar and swilling 3 or 4 bottles of Wife Beater, drive to another bar, etc etc. There seem to be bars and food outlets, out in the middle of nowhere in retail parks, full of people drinking and watching football, and many just jump in their car and drive away. Never once have I heard anyone there say "I'd better not have another, I'm driving".

That's a major difference between our countries, these days it is a serious no-no to have more than one drink and drive home, or even have any drink at all. It's just not socially acceptable, and if there were places like the bars I mentioned, the police would have them staked out. You'd be pulled over in seconds, for the slightest imagined infraction, and breathalysed. It would just not be worth running the gauntlet of cops to bother having any drink.

I realise that the size of the US makes it difficult to wander to your local pub and then stagger home pissed as a rat later, or even get a taxi. I can't think of many people here who would drive 20 miles for a couple of beers then drive home!

The 20th Century approach didn't fail, prison doesn't sound particularly appealing to me, and still doesn't, therefore I will avoid doing anything which will get me sent there. If I think that I'm going to get a telling off and a fine (which I can't/won't pay) then I might chance having a toke. Oh, I get caught? Boo-hoo, "Fuck off Cunt-stubble, arrest me, if you haven't got anything better to do!" I know there is little real chance of getting nicked, why not have a little toot of Charlie instead, it's not much worse...

Either you have Zero Tolerance, or you leave yourself open to your citizens pushing their luck and potentially harming themselves or other innocent members of society.

I see that early exposure to marijuana is again being touted as a great way to give youngsters serious mental health problems, schizophrenia etc, that it actually mutates cells (as opposed to causing behavioral issues which cannot be physically defined). The last thing Western society needs is more lunatics wandering the streets...

[Shawn Lutz]

Same experience for me too Tommy in suburbia of Detroit. I was in 6th grade when I first tried pot but in jr high you could get any kind of illegal drug you wanted rather easily too.

[Nightbat]

I don't know what planet some people may have lived on, or the rules or setup of where some have lived or do live now,
but from the age of about 12, i could buy any particular drug as easily as a hot dog from a street vendor growing up in new york.

Apparently I lived in a more civilized part of the world then you
But instead of accusing me of being an alien in the world, how about you accuse the lowlifes in your neighbourhood selling shit to kids
How about accusing the neighbourhood of not giving a damn and letting it happen

The hypocrisy of 'the law' is only as sick as the apathy from 'The People'

[Sephiroth]

Has democracy in those two states been over-ruled by activist judges serving the alcohol industry and other corporate interests yet?

[xenophobe]

The 20th Century approach didn't fail, prison doesn't sound particularly appealing to me, and still doesn't, therefore I will avoid doing anything which will get me sent there.

But it has failed. All the time, effort and money spent on drug interdiction went mostly wasted as product availability was never really affected, mostly for marijuana. The hard drugs get hit hard, but as far as I know that hasn't made much of an impact. You can still get hard drugs relatively easy. All the money spent prosecuting and imprisoning end users are also wasted dollars. Also the economic impact of taking these people out of the workforce potentially put families on welfare or food stamps. Many of these people would have made less money than it cost to incarcerate them. Putting people in prison for personal choices that don't affect others is just silly. That's the double whammy effect. It doesn't work. It doesn't stop people from doing drugs. Drugs are available in prisons as well.

If I think that I'm going to get a telling off and a fine (which I can't/won't pay) then I might chance having a toke. Oh, I get caught? Boo-hoo, "Fuck off Cunt-stubble, arrest me, if you haven't got anything better to do!" I know there is little real chance of getting nicked, why not have a little toot of Charlie instead, it's not much worse...

Either you have Zero Tolerance, or you leave yourself open to your citizens pushing their luck and potentially harming themselves or other innocent members of society.

So if you can't do it, you don't want anyone else to. That's very progressive socialist. What I choose to do in my home is none of your business. Even if it is illegal, if it's not harming anyone else, it's none of your business. I guess that's the main difference between us. We're free individuals with basic rights, you still have subject with permissions mentality.

I see that early exposure to marijuana is again being touted as a great way to give youngsters serious mental health problems, schizophrenia etc, that it actually mutates cells (as opposed to causing behavioral issues which cannot be physically defined). The last thing Western society needs is more lunatics wandering the streets...

Well, the latest report that I read is that if an adolescent starts smoking marijuana regularly before their brain fully develops, the overall loss is about 8-10 IQ points. It may trigger schizophrenia in some people, but so far I don't think there is any differentiation between someone susceptible to mental disorders not having those issues triggered if they do or don't do drugs.

[atomic charvel guy]

Apparently I lived in a more civilized part of the world then you
But instead of accusing me of being an alien in the world, how about you accuse the lowlifes in your neighbourhood selling shit to kids
How about accusing the neighbourhood of not giving a damn and letting it happen

The hypocrisy of 'the law' is only as sick as the apathy from 'The People'

i never accused you of anything. i'm just surprised by anyones (not yours in particular) surprise that drugs have been and have always been available to
the public, i grew up in an 8 bedroom dutch colonial mini-mansion in one of the most beautiful towns closest in proximity to new york city that was only 15-20 minutes away by car or train , but if you drove 10 minutes away from your house, without having to go all the way into the city and the drugs were everywhere, literally, and no laws were enforced , in fact cops were constantly paid off to look the other way.
apathy from the people? apathy nor taking action will not stop the dollars, never. new york was a hairy place to grow up, and the times were consequence free. i never knew anyone that went down for buying or
selling drugs, again, the times were consequence free, then Guiliani got elected and he went haywire cleaning up the streets from what i was told, and he did a great job, but it didn't stop them
from being sold in the end. nothing can stop the business of narcotics, legal or illegal.
there was a smorgasbord

[Maiden89]

The only harm that marijuana causes is by it by being illegal. How many people die a year from smoking weed? I've never heard of any.

However, about 300,000 Americans die a year from obesity. Should we make being a fat ass illegal in the U.S? Perhaps we should but an age limit on fat foods and regulate them? Then we'll have Krispy Kreme cartels smuggling doughnuts into the U.S and selling them for a crazy sum of money.

[Rsmacker]

But it has failed. All the time, effort and money spent on drug interdiction went mostly wasted as product availability was never really affected, mostly for marijuana. The hard drugs get hit hard, but as far as I know that hasn't made much of an impact. You can still get hard drugs relatively easy. All the money spent prosecuting and imprisoning end users are also wasted dollars. Also the economic impact of taking these people out of the workforce potentially put families on welfare or food stamps. Many of these people would have made less money than it cost to incarcerate them. Putting people in prison for personal choices that don't affect others is just silly. That's the double whammy effect. It doesn't work. It doesn't stop people from doing drugs. Drugs are available in prisons as well.

So why bother with prison at all then? It's never stopped anyone committing murder, or robbing banks, or beating off in front of coach parties of nuns on a picnic so why waste the effort? If you don't want your family to be plunged into poverty, don't let them down by being a criminal and going to jail.

What is prison for? To punish, IMHO (rehabilitation and re-education is secondary), being banged up should be something to fear. Yes, drugs are available inside, but let's start adding time to sentences for positive random drug tests, those inmates can't be trusted outside, they haven't learned their lesson. Better to have them locked up than roaming round my neighbourhood looking for stuff to steal to pay for their addiction.

So if you can't do it, you don't want anyone else to. That's very progressive socialist. What I choose to do in my home is none of your business. Even if it is illegal, if it's not harming anyone else, it's none of your business. I guess that's the main difference between us. We're free individuals with basic rights, you still have subject with permissions mentality.

If I don't know what you are doing in your home, and you can get away with it, why should I care? Because of the key phrase is "harming anyone else" - you cannot be sure your illegal activities are harmless, you don't know the far-reaching effects of your actions.
If you leave your house and crash into my children, with traces of your drugs in your system, that's good enough for me - I'd string you up. If drug dealers set up shop nearby, thanks to the boom in business you are creating, any associated crimewave is partly your responsibility.

"Freedom" doesn't mean "I can do what the fuck I like, it is none of your business", it comes at a price - responsibility to the others in society. Sometimes you have to refrain from doing whatever you feel like, no matter how ridiculous you think the law is. That's the part you GIVE to make your society a better place, rather than that which you take, or feel you are owed.

[VitaminG]

legalise the drugs and you do away with the drug dealers & associated crime waves. As for the drug barons turning to protection rackets? How would they quickly retool for that? A massive organisation geared up for the illegal international transportation of contraband, now starts shaking down fruiterers in Hairy Knuckle, MI? Seems like a pretty drastic downscaling in business. Legalise drugs across the US, more likely they would start pursuing other markets in less "enlightened" parts of the world.

Any idiot who drives under the influence of ANYTHING is just as likely to do it on alcohol as they are drugs. Legalising drug use doesn't legalise the use of machinery under its influence.

Imagine the kickass roadside breathalyser-type drug tests they could have developed with all the money that has been blown on the failed War On Drugs.

Imagine if the US Gun Lobby was also the Recreational Drug Lobby. We wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[Endrik]

Should we make being a fat ass illegal

I would

[CowboyFromHell]

So why bother with prison at all then? It's never stopped anyone committing murder, or robbing banks, or beating off in front of coach parties of nuns on a picnic so why waste the effort? If you don't want your family to be plunged into poverty, don't let them down by being a criminal and going to jail.

What is prison for? To punish, IMHO (rehabilitation and re-education is secondary), being banged up should be something to fear. Yes, drugs are available inside, but let's start adding time to sentences for positive random drug tests, those inmates can't be trusted outside, they haven't learned their lesson. Better to have them locked up than roaming round my neighbourhood looking for stuff to steal to pay for their addiction.



If I don't know what you are doing in your home, and you can get away with it, why should I care? Because of the key phrase is "harming anyone else" - you cannot be sure your illegal activities are harmless, you don't know the far-reaching effects of your actions.
If you leave your house and crash into my children, with traces of your drugs in your system, that's good enough for me - I'd string you up. If drug dealers set up shop nearby, thanks to the boom in business you are creating, any associated crimewave is partly your responsibility.

"Freedom" doesn't mean "I can do what the fuck I like, it is none of your business", it comes at a price - responsibility to the others in society. Sometimes you have to refrain from doing whatever you feel like, no matter how ridiculous you think the law is. That's the part you GIVE to make your society a better place, rather than that which you take, or feel you are owed.

Guess that makes me responsible for drug cartels, local drug dealers, and the hike in taxes we all pay even though I've never had a possession charge, DUI, drunk in public, or anything of the sort. Your mentality amazes me at it shallowness. What I do ID my business and aside from the national war on drugs, which has wasted more money than any of us will ever see, doesn't effect you at all. I haven't ran over your kids, shot your family or anything of the sort so just how is what I do YOUR business? Btw, I've never had an on the job injury related to drug use either. Again, explain to me how what I do in the privacy of my own home becomes your business?