27 killed at an elementary school

[Grim]

Ban guns and it'll become pipe and fertilizer bombs.

Look at Europe. There isn't much gun violence.

They have suicide bombers and IEDs instead.

/thread

Also, how many serial killers are actually active and on the loose?

Afghanistan and Iraq are not in Europe. :think:

[xenophobe]

I never advocated a gun ban but.. something needs to be done. I know alot of really crazy guys who have carrying permits. Sure.. they don't have police records but they still are crazy. You don't have to take a drug test to own and carry a pistol in Connecticut. You just need to have a clean record. The experts say that the part of the brain that calculates and weighs out the consequences of your actions (the part of the brain that causes you NOT to do stupid or risky things) doesn't fully develop until a male is around 25 years old yet an 18 year old can get a permit to own a rifle or a shotgun and a 21 year old can own and carry a pistol in Connecticut. The shooter in Connecticut was 20. I have 3 kids. 22, 20 and 18. I know what a 20 year old is thinking and trust me.. most of them aren't rational thoughts. It will be interesting to find out if this killer had a permit or a license to carry or own a firearm. I am sure the NRA is praying that he bought the guns illegally.

What can anyone do?

The kid went into a school where he was known by other adults at the school where his mom taught and they knew it... that was his free pass to get in where he shouldn't have been.

A disturbed individual is a disturbed individual. You can't legislate crazy away from humanity.

It's a sad and horrific event in a world where sad and horrific events happen all the time. Being in the US, we're mostly shielded from bad stuff happening. Except on horrible occasions like this one.


I'm not going to bother reading any more responses. Stuff like this always brings out irrational arguments trying to arm-chair analyze and come up with ways that could have prevented this. You can't rewrite the past and you can't make rational judgements without all the facts. Nobody has all the facts at the moment. A lot of people just want to talk about this, and that's fine.

You can say ban guns. You can say all teachers should be required to carry and be proficient with a gun. Neither extreme will change what has happened, nor will anything that you try to legislate that would have prevented this possibly prevent something else from happening in the future. Most people need to realize and understand this. Most people aren't bright enough to get this fact.

[xenophobe]

Afghanistan and Iraq are not in Europe. :think:

Hmm... Lets see, ever hear of the IRA? Ever heard of Madrid? How about Berlin?

Get an education please. :P

Oh, almost forgot about this quote:

Suicide bombers? Where?

You're both fucking DERP.


And look at this, this is all recent. None of this killed anyone... that's not the point.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/pipe-bomb-attack-on-northern-ireland-photographers-home-16250533.html

http://www.stripes.com/news/europe/germany/german-police-investigate-suspected-pipe-bomb-at-bonn-train-station-1.200409

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/berlin-police-find-improvised-pipe-bombs-7723017.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pipebomb-found-in-car-2108507.html

[javert]

Hmm... Lets see, ever hear of the IRA? Ever heard of Madrid? How about Berlin? Get an education please. :P

Oh, almost forgot about this quote: You're both fucking DERP.

Holy crap, what does all this have to do with gun legislation? And what' up with the name calling? And you don't think the conflict in Northern Ireland is different from a general discussion of guns in society? You might as well draw Afghanistan, Iraq and the Israel-Palestine conflict into it - surely you're not saying that the current state of affairs in the states is similar to those in Nothern Ireland, which borders on civil war? And I'm still waiting to see evidence of regular occurences of suicide bombings - in statistical terms, a couple of occurences over a decade are outliers. Moreover, those bombings in Madrid and London were a) a long time ago, b) connected to ongoing wars. Not exactly about daily life. You might as well have picked statistics from WWII. Those would show that a lot of people in Europe were killed by firearms.

[javert]

What can anyone do? You can say ban guns. You can say all teachers should be required to carry and be proficient with a gun. Neither extreme will change what has happened, nor will anything that you try to legislate that would have prevented this possibly prevent something else from happening in the future. Most people need to realize and understand this. Most people aren't bright enough to get this fact.

So, you propose what? Doing nothing?

[javert]

My apologies for not seeing this response, but still, the data adds nothing to the conversation as it is not statistically reliable.

Grim, you make some good points, but I don't think the problem in this case is the data but rather the interpretation.

[Nightbat]

So, you propose what? Doing nothing?

What do you propose?

You can ban all guns and leave the criminals for the police to handle
but then people will be pissed of losing a 'right'
The fact that most criminals often aren't crazy and randomly start shooting up schools is a good point in this debate
whereas autistic sons not being able to steal mommies weaponsupply is another


But have we forgotten about 27 people that have died?

I didn't, and instead of discussing the right to bear arms, how about we discuss the right to live instead?

[sambencuda]

My bass players niece was in that school when this went down. Another friend of mine's son was there. I cannot imagine how these children are going to feel safe again. I have three boys age 10, 13 and 15. My 13 year old told me that he feels very sad and he can't shake it. This affected my kids in a deep and profound way. School is their life. This tragedy hit them right in their world and thats the biggest loss for society in this situation. What's the answer? There is no answer. not right now anyway. Right now is the time for hugging your kids and loved ones and appreciating that they are there for you to hug. 26 families cannot do that right now. At least take that from this senseless tragedy.

[javert]

What do you propose? You can ban all guns and leave the criminals for the police to handle but then people will be pissed of losing a 'right' The fact that most criminals often aren't crazy and randomly start shooting up schools is a good point in this debate whereas autistic sons not being able to steal mommies weaponsupply is another

It will take some guts from the politicians to take something people perceive as a right away from them, you're right about that. But at one point it was also a right of some to hit their spouse, beat their children and have slaves, yet here we are today...

Simply saying nothing could have been done and nothing should be done is refusing to accept responsibility for trying to solve the problems.

But have we forgotten about 27 people that have died? I didn't, and instead of discussing the right to bear arms, how about we discuss the right to live instead?

No, we haven't, but these lives will have been lost for nothing if nothing is learned from this. It's very tragic, and everybody should think about how to avoid things like that from happening ever again.

[axmann]

My wife works in an elementary school. The kids are scared, she is paranoid as hell when this bullshit happens. That isn't right and sucks. I own guns and they aren't going anywhere, thats not my rant right now. Kids shouldn't have to fear something as basic as going to school. Fucking wierdo asswipes doing this shit. Pisses me off. My thoughts to all those concerned and any of you bro's out on the eastcoast near this shitpile.

[Whoopu2]

In my opinion, something needs to be done about the state of mental healthcare in this country. I'm not saying it would have prevented this particular case, but I feel it's a step in the right direction. "Psychiatric Hospitals" in the USA are a joke, they're nothing more than prisons with padded walls that profit off keeping less-than desirable personalities locked away from society.. they don't "help" anyone. Psycho-therapists are nothing more than a money scam as well...

[Sephiroth]

I don't know what makes me madder;

the fact that a piece-of-shit psycho murdered all those innocent people, or the fact that the police hadn't even gotten their bodies out of the school when the leftist media went on the attack to blame guns while ignoring that the criminal who did all the murders didnt exactly obtain the guns legally and got them by murdering a law-abiding citizen (his mom).


Criminals and psychos don't give a fuck about the law, and blaming inanimate things to ply politics while people are grieving is beyond inexcusable.

[Shawn Lutz]

Defending gun rights? Just STFU for a while. That's a debate for another day, another time. Whatever your views, it's disrespectful. Now is a time for sadness, grief, pain and prayers. And nothing else matters now.

As is telling people to STFU...heed your own advice...

Although I agree with you to a certain extent but the conversation swung that way so I commented on it. What is even more fucked up is politicians making it political already.

[xenophobe]

So, you propose what? Doing nothing?

Let's see... The kid was mentally defective, brilliant genius autistic troubled person. He had a free pass to go into the school where nobody else could have. His mother owned the guns and they were registered to her. Do we know if she had them secured? In California, it can be a crime if you're a gun owner and your firearms aren't locked away and get stolen and used in a crime.

So, the mother should get the death penalty?

And seriously, are you implying that you should do whatever your feelgood reactionary knee-jerk response tells you to do?

Holy crap, what does all this have to do with gun legislation? And what' up with the name calling? And you don't think the conflict in Northern Ireland is different from a general discussion of guns in society? You might as well draw Afghanistan, Iraq and the Israel-Palestine conflict into it - surely you're not saying that the current state of affairs in the states is similar to those in Nothern Ireland, which borders on civil war? And I'm still waiting to see evidence of regular occurences of suicide bombings - in statistical terms, a couple of occurences over a decade are outliers. Moreover, those bombings in Madrid and London were a) a long time ago, b) connected to ongoing wars. Not exactly about daily life. You might as well have picked statistics from WWII. Those would show that a lot of people in Europe were killed by firearms.

/facepalm

There's so much you so don't seem understand I'm not even sure explaining my point to you would help.

I'll just say, so you figure homicidal rampages happen every other day and history should be ignored. So brilliant.

Fuck Homeland Security... 9/11 happened so long ago we should forget it?

Timothy McVeigh was all a bad dream.

[javert]

Xenophobe, it's obviously pointless to try to have an adult discusison about this with you. Your argument is one big, incoherent mess of separate, unrelated issues that have separate causes and most likely also different solutions. Wrt. the present problem, the path you're going down is that of defeatism.