New CCW gat piece. Glock 26, 850rds later

[DRM]

The port is altering the path of the sound, redirecting a great deal of it back at you.

Incorrect. It is redirecting propellant gases as they expand at the end of the barrel. The majority of a gunshot "report" is the sound of the round exiting the barrel and displacing the air. Altering the path of that air does not make it more loud, it is simply changing your perception of it based on its redirected path at you. The sound pressure that effects your ear is unchanged, and the same amount of hearing loss occurs regardless. We perceive these guns as louder because we "feel" more

I can say the same thing about the trigger on a concealed weapon. You don't want a 6oz hair trigger on a carry gun that you'd want on a range gun.

Please quote for me and clarify in my posts above where I recommended a "hair" trigger. I simply said I did not like the trigger in the Shield, not that you need a competition weight trigger. Your reading comprehension is atrocious.

The trigger is one of the last concerns you should have.

The ability to consistently manipulate that trigger to place an accurate first-shot hit and consecutive follow up shots where they need to go is ABSOLUTELY the first priority in self defense. The trigger translates the majority of the force from our hands into the weapon and it's from poor trigger control that the majority of shooters' innacuracy comes from. You can compensate for poor fundamentals only to an extent, and that's when solid marksmanship comes in. You have to be able to put the shots where they need to go and knowing where the trigger breaks and resets is a huge part of that.

The first is that you can actually conceal the firearm well.

It's an important part of the decision making process, yes.

The second is that it is safe and not prone to accidental discharge.

Funny thing about AD's. I have never, nor have anyone I have ever worked with, seen a firearm go off on its own. Human error is what causes NEGLIGENT discharges. This is why understanding your weapon systems manual of arms and it's built in safeties (ie firing pin, external, grip safeties, etc.) to make an appropriate holster selection. If you don't carry a holster with a reinforced trigger guard and a reinforced mouth, you're opening a whole world of safety issues that you brought onto yourself. I've carried DA/SA M9's with the safety on and cocked/locked on SA and never once had an ND. It comes down to holster selection and proper training and weapon manipulation.

I would never recommend a ported gun for concealed use to a customer.

This is one thing you've gotten right.

That porting isn't really going to make any difference, you're already going to have an adrenaline rush in a stressful situation.

True to an extent. You don't rise to occasion in a gunfight; you sink to your lowest level of training. Every time I've ever used a weapon in self defense, I went into an almost auto-pilot mode where muscle memory took over. This is why we dry fire frequently and practice our weapon manipulation as much as possible. It is a very perishable skill that doesn't require hours and hours to build, just consistency with good fundamentals. 10 minutes a day of proper dry fire practice is more beneficial to a shooter than 500 rounds of live at a range if he's just punching holes in a target. Our training and preparation should be realistic, but at the same time, consistent, from trip to trip to the range. Build upon your skillsets and rehearse the things that need it.

If that firearm has too much recoil for you, then you should be using a different firearm, not one with ports.

Learning to grip the handgun properly is a major issue with inexperienced shooters. I hear a lot about different recoil pulses between different calibers and with the exception of the magnums, I can't see an appreciable difference in my split times to really care. I pick the round that fits my needs and I train around that.

I see all kinds of fucked up shooting stances and grips in addition to the usual asshattery at public ranges and it's a huge part of the reason I go to a private range. The vast majority of people just don't know how to shoot and recycle the same washed up, 20-year old doctrine that gets printed every month in Guns & Ammo and the like. Lack of training mixed with lack of experience is a major problem with the gun culture we have today and unfortunately, people don't know what they don't know.

A heavier trigger is in fact better for most people that don't put thousands of rounds downrange a year.

It's not the weight of a trigger pull that matters: it's the take-up to the break and the reset length. The issue a LOT of shooters have is they don't understand how to take-up the slack in a trigger during the press out from the draw and how to cleanly break and follow through with a reset. Telling an inexperienced shooter to "go heavy" isn't always the right answer. They need to learn how to pull a trigger efficiently and repeatedly.

Now, you said that self defense is a stressful situation. This is absolutely true and it is downright terrifying when someone is actively trying to end your life. But, in my experience, you fall back onto your subconscious abilities with a firearm when it comes time to line up those sights and kill someone. Maintaining a level of unconscious competence will help you push through and stop the threat. You can't mask a lack of training with any sort of firearm or thought process: you have to know your weapon and you have to know how to use it.

At your store, do you offer any sort of professional training for customers, or is it strictly retail?

[DRM]

Seriously, I guess you've never compared a ported Glock alongside one that isn't at the range. That's ok, most people haven't.

Not side by side, but I have chrono'd/SPL'd competition Glocks almost weekly and I measure the SPL's when I compare unsuppressed/suppressed rifles. So while not side by side, I do know a thing or two about shooting with a brake/standard FH and how it meters SPL's.

What do you do besides just shoot them?

[xenophobe]

Yeah, I compare them almost weekly when I chrono them for our competitions at the range. Also fuck around measuring SPL's when guys bring over their rifle cans.

What have you done besides just shoot one?

Oh, you want to turn this into a pissing match?

You're a gun guy in the Army. I was a gun guy in the Army 20 years ago. I got my first AK-47 when I was 13. I've probably owned more guns than you've probably shot. I've had my own FFL and I've worked in the industry for ages.

I respect you for serving. Not for being a douche. You're a gun grunt. I'm a gun snob.

Want to have a pissing match with what guns you've owned in your life?

BTW, it's not my fault I was never deployed, in case you're trying to hold that over me. I joined during Desert Shield and was in Basic when Desert Shield became Desert Storm. My unit had orders, we were waiting for our Bradleys which didn't come in time.

[DRM]

Yeah, I'm the only one being ignorant here. Sorry to kick you off your high horse. :P

Okay, so telling someone to carry a gun over another because one is louder isn't ignorant...how? I didn't say you were ignorant, but now I will. It's a gun, dude; hearing damage will occur. Using "noise" in any way, shape, or form to decide as a reason to select a weapon for self defense is full retard.

[DRM]

This has absolutely nothing to do with the military. Congratulations for serving. Millions do it. And please, enlighten me on how I brought up my deployments and in any way looked down on you for not having the fortune of doing one? Deploying doesn't mean shit.

I was asking what valid experience you have measuring SPL's and what knowledge you have on that relation to inner ear damage. Pretty simple, actually. Stop looking too deep into it, I'm not insulting you. But if you want it to go that route, I'm cool with it.

[xenophobe]

No, telling one person to pick a gun with ports for self defense over the same model without is pure stupidity. Pick the one without... duh. You don't know where you're going to have to shoot it. Inside a car with your family? Oh your kid is right next to you. Yeah, that makes sense. You're supposed to know your surroundings, but with a carry gun you don't know what situation you'll need it in.

[DRM]

No, telling one person to pick a gun with ports for self defense over the same model without is pure stupidity. Pick the one without... duh. You don't know where you're going to have to shoot it. Inside a car with your family? Oh your kid is right next to you. Yeah, that makes sense. You're supposed to know your surroundings, but with a carry gun you don't know what situation you'll need it in.

Exactly.

[xenophobe]

What do I know about ear damage? I know that you should do everything you can to protect it.

I haven't had my hearing tested, but driving deuce and a halfs, m577s, M113's, doing lots of range time only with squishies or GI issue plugs, rehearsing and a round count of probably 100k, some during tactical pistol courses, standard range time and mout training... yeah, dude, my hearing is not what it should be. Protect it.

[DRM]

Also, check your PM's.

[xenophobe]

Dude, I'm sorry for being an ass. I respect you for what you're doing, we're both Army, we're both gun guys and we're both Jackson fans. I wish we could just grab some rifles and head to the range and have fun sharing our toys.

Sorry bro. My bad.

[DRM]

Dude, I'm sorry for being an ass. I respect you for what you're doing, we're both Army, we're both gun guys and we're both Jackson fans. I wish we could just grab some rifles and head to the range and have fun sharing our toys.

Sorry bro. My bad.

Fault lies on both sides of the fence, brother. I'm too much of a Type A for my own good.

If you ever should find yourself near Bragg, hit me up. I have access to a 24/7/365 range.

[xenophobe]

Incorrect. It is redirecting propellant gases as they expand at the end of the barrel. The majority of a gunshot "report" is the sound of the round exiting the barrel and displacing the air. Altering the path of that air does not make it more loud, it is simply changing your perception of it based on its redirected path at you. The sound pressure that effects your ear is unchanged, and the same amount of hearing loss occurs regardless. We perceive these guns as louder because we "feel" more

The redirection of supersonic gasses, especially with the factory Glock porting does make a big difference. The shockwave (of the porting, which includes both gas and sound) is redirected back towards you. In a semi-enclosed space, this is bad. In an enclosed space it doesn't really matter. The Glock C's factory porting is pretty horrible in this regard, though it does work well.

The ability to consistently manipulate that trigger to place an accurate first-shot hit and consecutive follow up shots where they need to go is ABSOLUTELY the first priority in self defense.

A concealed weapon is a compromise. For a primary weapon, like a rifle or pistol that you don't need to conceal, I would absolutely agree. For a concealed weapon, most encounters are short range. Having a nice, consistent trigger is always good and never bad, but a concealed weapon isn't a primary duty weapon, it's a backup... you're not shooting your ideal weapon. The ranges you would use a concealed firearm are going to be much closer as well.

And I'm not arguing against the importance of a consistent trigger and shot placement at all. I'm just saying it's not the prime aspect of a carry gun, at least to me.

The trigger translates the majority of the force from our hands into the weapon and it's from poor trigger control that the majority of shooters' innacuracy comes from. You can compensate for poor fundamentals only to an extent, and that's when solid marksmanship comes in. You have to be able to put the shots where they need to go and knowing where the trigger breaks and resets is a huge part of that.

Yes, I understand that. Trigger control, breathing, hold, anticipation, etc... they all play a role.

Funny thing about AD's. I have never, nor have anyone I have ever worked with, seen a firearm go off on its own. Human error is what causes NEGLIGENT discharges. This is why understanding your weapon systems manual of arms and it's built in safeties (ie firing pin, external, grip safeties, etc.) to make an appropriate holster selection. If you don't carry a holster with a reinforced trigger guard and a reinforced mouth, you're opening a whole world of safety issues that you brought onto yourself. I've carried DA/SA M9's with the safety on and cocked/locked on SA and never once had an ND. It comes down to holster selection and proper training and weapon manipulation.

Semantics. By accidental discharge, I obviously don't mean it going off by itself. I've owned hundreds of firearms and lots of evil registered "assualt weapons". None of them have ever gone off by themselves or murdered anyone.

Look at most concealed holsters. They far less safe than a holster designed for open carry. You could have clothing, brush, a backpack with straps, or who knows what obstacles might be in your way along with the adrenaline/panic/whatever... even the most trained person can fumble.

True to an extent. You don't rise to occasion in a gunfight; you sink to your lowest level of training. Every time I've ever used a weapon in self defense, I went into an almost auto-pilot mode where muscle memory took over. This is why we dry fire frequently and practice our weapon manipulation as much as possible. It is a very perishable skill that doesn't require hours and hours to build, just consistency with good fundamentals. 10 minutes a day of proper dry fire practice is more beneficial to a shooter than 500 rounds of live at a range if he's just punching holes in a target. Our training and preparation should be realistic, but at the same time, consistent, from trip to trip to the range. Build upon your skillsets and rehearse the things that need it.

You're correct. You need to maintain that training or you start to lose it. Most people with self-defense firearms, and even many of those who regularly carry don't train regularly. So what works with you doesn't work with most of the general public.

Learning to grip the handgun properly is a major issue with inexperienced shooters. I hear a lot about different recoil pulses between different calibers and with the exception of the magnums, I can't see an appreciable difference in my split times to really care. I pick the round that fits my needs and I train around that.

You're a trained warfighter. Most people aren't. The difference between the recoil of a 9mm to 40 is enough for some people to call it quits. If you buy a gun that you anticipate and subconsciously flinch with, you're doing a disservice. If someone in that position is carrying that firearm concealed, they're a hazzard, IMO.

It's not the weight of a trigger pull that matters: it's the take-up to the break and the reset length. The issue a LOT of shooters have is they don't understand how to take-up the slack in a trigger during the press out from the draw and how to cleanly break and follow through with a reset. Telling an inexperienced shooter to "go heavy" isn't always the right answer. They need to learn how to pull a trigger efficiently and repeatedly.

I was being facetious about the 6oz hair trigger. My bad. Trigger weight isn't as much of an issue as break. As long as you have a smooth pull and crisp break, 4lb, 6lb, 8lb, weight doesn't really matter. Consistency is the most important thing. You want it to act the same every time.

Now, you said that self defense is a stressful situation. This is absolutely true and it is downright terrifying when someone is actively trying to end your life. But, in my experience, you fall back onto your subconscious abilities with a firearm when it comes time to line up those sights and kill someone. Maintaining a level of unconscious competence will help you push through and stop the threat. You can't mask a lack of training with any sort of firearm or thought process: you have to know your weapon and you have to know how to use it.

And I don't disagree with that. You're the exception, not the common denominator.

At your store, do you offer any sort of professional training for customers, or is it strictly retail?

I've done a bit of pistol/rifle marksmanship training to numerous people. I always kicked the idea of becoming NRA Certified so I could offer services professionally, but I like to shoot more than I like to teach. Even though I've taken tactical pistol courses, had proper MOUT training, etc.. I don't consider myself all that well trained, nothing close to your level, but I'm certainly not a novice. I do know what I should and shouldn't recommend to a novice based on what I know and believe, and it's not from any book or web site and judging from my experience and feedback that I've received, I've done a pretty good job of that.

[xenophobe]

Fault lies on both sides of the fence, brother. I'm too much of a Type A for my own good.

If you ever should find yourself near Bragg, hit me up. I have access to a 24/7/365 range.

Yeah, I'm too Type A as well.

Oh, I wish I were close, that would be awesome!

[DRM]

Yeah, I'm too Type A as well.

Oh, I wish I were close, that would be awesome!

I just picked up a set of PVS-15's. Let the night fire begin!

[xenophobe]

I just picked up a set of PVS-15's. Let the night fire begin!

Wow, so jealous... I've wanted a pair of binos forever... the prices were way too high back then though. I had a set of 3+ PVS 7's, but the mono vision bugged me so I traded them for a 14. Had to sell them though. Right now all I have is this... haven't got to test it out yet... stupid California...



And no, I don't actually shoot it with the flash hider. lol

Oh, just FYI, the 203 isn't stolen. I have a proper paper trail sold commercially.

And yes, I know it's a dated system... I love the M24 and have been thinking of updating it to the Cadex/PVS 24 combo, but that's an expensive upgrade.