Live music in clubs was much louder in the 80's.

[jgcable]

It was. The guitar player in a 1 guitar band would usually have at least a full stack turned up so loud it felt like your ears were going to burst. Many of them had 2 full stacks. The stage volume was MUCH MUCH louder than it is now. The PA system was MUCH BIGGER AND MUCH LOUDER.
You would NEVER see a combo or a 1 x 12 or anything like that. It was 1/2 stacks and full stacks or 2 full stacks.
The stage volume on my Hiwatt 120w tube head running through a Red Marshall full stack loaded with JBL speakers with an MXR Distortion + and a Phase 90 out in front was SO LOUD it was deafening... and.. it was mic'd through a PA that had speakers at least 10' high. Even at small clubs we could turn up REALLY LOUD.
This was in the late 70's up to around 1992. Nowadays.. clubs are wimp. Heck.. we are usually told to turn down and what usually happens is when the house music comes on between sets its LOUDER than the band. Club owners are wimps. Even the fans are wimps. They can't handle loud music unless its in their overpriced Dr. Dre Beats headphones. People want to converse when the band is playing. Bartenders want to hear what people are ordering. WTF!!!
What the heck happened? Bands like TT Quick and Twisted Sister and Anthrax and Zebra were incredibly loud at the local clubs. Nowadays.. the only way you can hear it REALLY loud is when you go to an arena and pay $100 a ticket to see a headline act. Personally.. I think that sucks.

[pianoguyy]

I'll tell ya what happened...

First, there were many things that happened. But the music side of things, Nirvana happened. The anti-rockstar. Dressed in rags. Eyes looking down at their feet. Humble. Shy. Common.
Larger than life personalities disappeared. Larger than life stage shows disappeared. Everyone wanted to be 'regular folk'.

Believe it or not, Rob Zombie just did an interview about the state of rock in America. He said most of the same thing. I may have even borrowed a few keywords.

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/rob-zombie-says-u-s-rock-scene-has-never-recovered-from-rise-of-early-90s-grunge-movement/

But really, who wants to pay $5 to get in to a local club to see a bunch of everyday people. At least if they turn it down, we can 'hang wit da bros'.
Its a vicious cycle. When someone does come along with something big, the crowds don't know what to do, so they do the same stuff they always do -- sip wine or drink dos equis and cosmos. Ignore the band. Next time, the band doesn't do the big production. Now, they aren't worth paying attention to.

I remember the days when your heart could have stopped beating but you were being given cpr by the bass drum volume.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wum5oI65OGA

[roodyrocker]

Those things may be true at the national level but for local clubs technology has given us somewhat more compact systems so the PA doesn't have to be as huge as before to get similar or even better results. In the old days it was sheer volume, now it may be lower volume but its more enjoyable to listen to because its more balanced tone I guess. Just letting everyone in the band turn up to whatever they like produces mush and your ears fatigue quickly.
As far as rock stars, yeah I agree with the above. I think Gene Simmons once said about these Grunge guys "you're a rock star, dress like one. I can't tell you from your audience" or something like that

[jgcable]

Those things may be true at the national level but for local clubs technology has given us somewhat more compact systems so the PA doesn't have to be as huge as before to get similar or even better results. In the old days it was sheer volume, now it may be lower volume but its more enjoyable to listen to because its more balanced tone I guess. Just letting everyone in the band turn up to whatever they like produces mush and your ears fatigue quickly.
As far as rock stars, yeah I agree with the above. I think Gene Simmons once said about these Grunge guys "you're a rock star, dress like one. I can't tell you from your audience" or something like that

That's where we differ. I think its more enjoyable to hear a high energy or heavy rock band when they are loud and I can feel it. Balanced tones in my opinion are overrated. I like thunderous bass, screaming guitar tone and a kick drum that beats the crap out of you. I think if clubs brought that back they would be crowded again when local bands played. Its just too damn easy for people to not pay attention to the band when they are playing at a volume that doesn't get their attention. I miss the days of when the band started the people that loved it came to the front and the people that didn't went to the back or left because it was too loud. I miss the days when there were no conversations of phone calls when the band was playing and if you wanted to order a drink you needed to YELL it out to the bartender.

[jgcable]

Those things may be true at the national level but for local clubs technology has given us somewhat more compact systems so the PA doesn't have to be as huge as before to get similar or even better results. In the old days it was sheer volume, now it may be lower volume but its more enjoyable to listen to because its more balanced tone I guess. Just letting everyone in the band turn up to whatever they like produces mush and your ears fatigue quickly.
As far as rock stars, yeah I agree with the above. I think Gene Simmons once said about these Grunge guys "you're a rock star, dress like one. I can't tell you from your audience" or something like that

I do agree that their has to be a balance. I just think that the overall mindset of clubs and patrons is not friendly to a high energy rock or metal band in regards to volume levels.

[Hellbat]

A lot has to do with noise bylaws and stuff that didn't exist back in the day. Sound level meters are a lot easier to get now so I'd imagine clubs are probably using them to spot check and avoid any fines.

[toejam]

But really, who wants to pay $5 to get in to a local club to see a bunch of everyday people.

I do. And it worked for Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Slayer, Exodus, Testament, Overkill, Death Angel... bands that are still around today.
I never really got the whole glam thing. Sure, a lot of those bands had great musicians, but why would you want to wear makeup and dress like a chick?

[clifffclaven]

I agree. Here, my 80s hair band only plays in the summer, outdoor gigs. My other 70/80s cover band is the 'background music' band. 80s band pa- 4 18s/4 tops/15000 watts... My other band? 1 qsc sub and 2 jbl 115/horn tops. And sometimes even that's 'too loud'.

I think most of it is venues anymore. There's really only 3-4 clubs here that are music first/hanging out second. Most places my 'other' band plays are joes sports bar or some shit.

[pianoguyy]

I agree that new laws and stiffer penalties for existing laws have something to do with it. But at the same time, if a club was making enough money to justify a fine, they would totally violate the laws.


It also really comes down to what type of club we're dealing with.
Small, 500 person, venues. They can be set up as a concert hall -- the band is the focal point, crank the volume.
But then you have the places where the booze is the money maker. Turn the volume down, so they can dance and socialize and buy more booze.


But, again, I can't stress, if the customers wanted something, things would get done.
Unfortunately, the younger crowds have been conditioned to not want big, in your face, rock n roll.


That's one of the reasons why I got involved with country music. This new stuff is big and boisterous.
Modern Country is a lot like 80's hair metal. But with less reverb and a cowboy hat.

[Codex]

have you been to toad's place lately? I saw The Darkness there a couple of years ago and it was one of the loudest concerts I've seen there (Overkill was just as loud), and I've seen tons of metal and hardcore shows there from the 80s through today.

It was so loud, it made me nauseous at times. And it's not just me getting old! Even friends who have worked there over the years have said that they turn it up way too loud (to the point of distortion/clipping)

[jgcable]

The problem with Toads is basically its a free gig and you get a 30 minute set and you don't know when you are going on unless you are a headline national act.
I have many friends in bands who play there on a Thursday or Friday night with 7 other bands. They give you 1/2 price tickets to give away. If 40 people come in with your ticket you get $50.00 and it goes up from there. Do you know how friggin hard it is to get 40 people to travel to New Haven to see your band for a 30 minute set anytime between 8:00pm and 1:00am? Its impossible.
Toads has a great system and I have played there many times. That's probably the lowest stage volume I have ever played at. I couldn't even year my amp because the stage monitor system is so good. I saw a band there and the guitar player had a Fender Frontman 15R sitting on a chair with a mic in front of it. His tone was just about as good and certainly as loud as the guys playing half stacks and full stacks. I am not a fan of Toads Place. They are NOT band friendly unless you are willing to play for 30 minutes for free.

[jgcable]

That's why I like doing outdoor bike rally gigs. LOUD AND PROUD.

[pianoguyy]

I do. And it worked for Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Slayer, Exodus, Testament, Overkill, Death Angel... bands that are still around today.
I never really got the whole glam thing. Sure, a lot of those bands had great musicians, but why would you want to wear makeup and dress like a chick?

Having never actually seen those bands in person in their local bar band days, I can't speak first hand.
But I have seen some old videos of a few of them. They weren't necessarily looking at their feet to avoid eye contact with the crowds or standing like flag poles in fear of moving.
Off stage, in interviews, they were talking like stars. They weren't talking about the economy and feeding the hungry or what they do for their 9-5 job.


Its not necessarily about dressing in a 70's disco space suit. But there has to be an element of show in show business and you have to be entertaining in the entertainment business.

[Codex]

to me, there's a difference between being a club to see music that sells alcohol and a bar who has live bands. I can see the bars not having/wanting loud music. but clubs? they should put the music first. I don't even know what 'clubs' are around here anymore. Toad's, Webster, ???

[jgcable]

to me, there's a difference between being a club to see music that sells alcohol and a bar who has live bands. I can see the bars not having/wanting loud music. but clubs? they should put the music first. I don't even know what 'clubs' are around here anymore. Toad's, Webster, ???

Your right. I am going on my experience. My band plays at about 15 different places. Every one of them has a band Friday and Saturday or at least one of the nights. Almost all of them are out for the bar take and could care less about the band. As long as they draw people that drink.