General Cover Band Questions

[Big Al]

For the first time in my life I have stayed in a band for almost two years. We average playing out four times a month, only play on Friday and/or Saturday and playing out has become a routine...in a good way. We let everyone know what time to be at the venue and everyone shows up and knows what they need to do. Sure there are certain members may show up late or not give their all when loading out but in general, everything goes well. I have never questioned money, p.a. or responsibilities because it usually pisses someone off but I would like to check with you guys to see what is general practice in bands.

1. Does usually one person own the pa? If so, does that person get a extra cut in the pay?
2. If a singer does not bring any equipment, does he get the same cut?
3. Does the sound guy get an equal cut?
4. How do you go about picking new songs?
5. How often does everyone get together to practice?
6. If you have a opening band, that is starting out, should the band pay them?
7. Do you ever agree to play for the door? Do you trust the bar's door person?
8. What is the typical pay for one and two nights?
9. How do you handle members that go over their share of the comped bar tab?

Looking over my questions I see I am concerned mostly about getting paid. I do enjoy playing but when it takes up so much of my weekends, it is nice to get the most money I can for the guitar fund.

[straycat]

Usually the club owner does the payout If there is one.
If the opening band loads up and leaves because they need to get home or on to the next gig they forfeit their pay in some cases.
The sound guy if he works for the club owner is getting his cut off the door or a flat rate deducted by the club owner.
If you are playing for the door have someone in your crew run the door, as a roadie I have done that a lot.
Its different everywhere you go and there are really no set rules.
Cover bands usually negotiate with the club owner for a set price per night.
As far as bar tab each club owner has their rules so may give the band a set number of free drinks some don't.
If the singer brings his own PA he gets no more than any other band member because you have gear you have to pack too.

One tip:
Don't piss the sound guy off because he controls what you sound like.If you start copping an attitude during the first few songs and showing your ass he will do his best to screw your set.He knows his equipment better than you do.
I have built a rep with most of the sound guys we have worked with, I can slip back and ask him to take something up or down by saying please can I get more guitar or vocals and 99% of the time its yeah sure no problem.
Be respectful you are in his house.

[Newc]

The singer brought his gear - his voice. However, it would be nice if more singers actually researched how different mics made their voice sound, and how to make their mic tone fit with the band, rather than everyone having their own tone and nothing working well together. Flappy kick and clanky bass sounds like ass, as does bee-in-a-bottle guitar tones and a nasally singer.

Never let anyone in the band simply because they have a p.a.

[AdRock]

For the first time in my life I have stayed in a band for almost two years. We average playing out four times a month, only play on Friday and/or Saturday and playing out has become a routine...in a good way. We let everyone know what time to be at the venue and everyone shows up and knows what they need to do. Sure there are certain members may show up late or not give their all when loading out but in general, everything goes well. I have never questioned money, p.a. or responsibilities because it usually pisses someone off but I would like to check with you guys to see what is general practice in bands.

1. Does usually one person own the pa? If so, does that person get a extra cut in the pay?
2. If a singer does not bring any equipment, does he get the same cut?
3. Does the sound guy get an equal cut?
4. How do you go about picking new songs?
5. How often does everyone get together to practice?
6. If you have a opening band, that is starting out, should the band pay them?
7. Do you ever agree to play for the door? Do you trust the bar's door person?
8. What is the typical pay for one and two nights?
9. How do you handle members that go over their share of the comped bar tab?

Looking over my questions I see I am concerned mostly about getting paid. I do enjoy playing but when it takes up so much of my weekends, it is nice to get the most money I can for the guitar fund.

1. Does usually one person own the pa? If so, does that person get a extra cut in the pay?
It's almost always best when one person owns the PA. I'm talking about the big stuff, mixer, amps, mains, monitors, and cabling for all that stuff. Also, assorted mics and cables. But I know plenty of guys that want a certain drum mic or guitar mic, etc. If they want a certain mic then they should buy it, set it up, tear it down, and be responsible for it. This is usually the best way to do this because you don't want the bass player to quit and take the mains with him leaving the rest of you screwed.

2. If a singer does not bring any equipment, does he get the same cut?
As much as I hate to say it, yes, they should get an equal cut. Each person is vital to the performance of the band.

3. Does the sound guy get an equal cut?
Well, that all depends. I've seen things done all kinds of ways. If you were to hire someone like myself that has the PA and runs it, then it's whether you're willing to pay what I charge for the gig. Also, if you were to call me to come run your PA for the night it would be for a set amount and whether you were willing to pay that amount. If you have a friend you trust that'll do it for whatever you offer, then cool. In the cover band world there's really not a set way that most people do it. When I do sound gigs I bring the PA, set it up, run it, tear it down, and take it home. So I ask for a set amount once I know what work needs to be done, If I want $400 for the night I don't care if the band is making $100 or $1000, as long as I get get the money that was agreed to then I'm good.


4. How do you go about picking new songs?
What I used to do was to go and see other cover bands at the clubs that we also played at. I actually use to carry a small notepad, I would watch the crowd reaction to each song they played. Doing this with about 10 different bands amounted to quite the list of sings that went over really well. Also, for instance, lets say that another band gets a great reaction to a song that we got a so-so reaction to.. what did they do different, play different, etc that resulted in the better reaction? I know it seems like a lot of work but after a while you start to see pretty quickly what might do well and what might not. It also made it easier to gauge what the crowds at different clubs reacted to so we could kind of taylor the set list to the venue.


5. How often does everyone get together to practice?
There is not set answer. I've seen plenty of bands that practice all the time and aren't that great. I also know a few bands where 1 person makes cd's of the new songs for everyone, everyone learns their part, then they put it in the set when everybody is good with it. They never practice together and they still kill it at the gig because they're good musicians and trust each other to do their homework. So, you practice as much as you need to to do the songs well without any hiccups.


6. If you have a opening band, that is starting out, should the band pay them?
If the club is only booking you for the night and you decide to get a band yourself to open for you then yes, it's on you to pay them. And if they'll play for nothing then you probably don't want them to open and run off the people that are there.


7. Do you ever agree to play for the door? Do you trust the bar's door person?
Playing for the door is usually a good way to get screwed. I never do it. If you do it though, have a person you trust completely stand right on top of the club employee collecting at the door. Or if the club doesn't mind, have your person do it themselves.


8. What is the typical pay for one and two nights?
There's no way to answer this question. It's a different answer everywhere.


9. How do you handle members that go over their share of the comped bar tab?
You take that money out of their pay and cover the overage before you pay them out. Don't give them their cash and hope they do it.

[Newc]

Covers also depend on the crowd and region. My old band played the "classic rock and country" bars, so stuff like Creedence and Sweet Leaf went over well, as did Cat Scratch Fever and (to our surprise) Man In The Box. Ever see rednecks 2-step to Man In The Box? It's....odd.

[straycat]

Country bars I get a kick out of, all these macho guys trying to emulate rough tough cowboys.
I'll admit I'm way out of place in a country bar and get looks like "I'm going to kick your ass because you look different".
Then they get up and line dance in their skinny jeans and cowboy boots.

[xenophobe]

For the first time in my life I have stayed in a band for almost two years. We average playing out four times a month, only play on Friday and/or Saturday and playing out has become a routine...in a good way. We let everyone know what time to be at the venue and everyone shows up and knows what they need to do. Sure there are certain members may show up late or not give their all when loading out but in general, everything goes well. I have never questioned money, p.a. or responsibilities because it usually pisses someone off but I would like to check with you guys to see what is general practice in bands.

1. Does usually one person own the pa? If so, does that person get a extra cut in the pay?
2. If a singer does not bring any equipment, does he get the same cut?
3. Does the sound guy get an equal cut?
4. How do you go about picking new songs?
5. How often does everyone get together to practice?
6. If you have a opening band, that is starting out, should the band pay them?
7. Do you ever agree to play for the door? Do you trust the bar's door person?
8. What is the typical pay for one and two nights?
9. How do you handle members that go over their share of the comped bar tab?

Looking over my questions I see I am concerned mostly about getting paid. I do enjoy playing but when it takes up so much of my weekends, it is nice to get the most money I can for the guitar fund.

1. A singer usually owns a PA, or at least should. Or the person who owns the rehearsal space.

2. A singer should get paid regardless if he has to haul around a PA. And a drummer should not get more.

3. If it's a house sound guy, no. If you go to a specific place a lot and he does your sound good, tipping would probably be a good idea.

4. Depends, the band leader sometimes picks or everyone gets to debate.

5. For a gigging band, probably 2-3 times a week if there is no gig.

6. No, you're generally never paying another band. That's the responsibility of the venue.

7. Depends on the club I guess. Playing for part of the bar while you're on stage is how that's usually worked out for me.

8. Depends on the club and if you're playing house band with several sets or just one of a number of bands.

9. Make them pay their tab.

[Larz]

4. Ask women what songs they would like to hear you cover

Women coming to the bar, women dancing in the bar equals more men in bars and more door money and success and happiness for everyone

I've noticed that whatever genre your set trends toward, be it metal, classic, 80s or whatever else, a good Journey cover always seems to go over well

[Bert]

As the PA owner I kind of feel screwed because I'm always lugging a ton more equipment to the gig than everyone else. I don't expect more pay though. Sometimes my bandmates will pick up a piece or two at the practice before the gig to help lighten my load, so that's cool. I mostly rationalize it by telling myself at least I'm getting some exercise!

And somewhat sadly, what Larz says is quite important: if you want to attract a crowd, it helps a hell of a lot to have a setlist that will entertain women. But preferably also pick stuff that still keeps YOU entertained. It's a tricky balance sometimes.

Paying the sound guy "equal cut" seems silly. You pay him what he's worth. Sometimes I'll have a friend run sound and just pay in beer. For more important gigs we'll hire a pro and will end up paying way more than we get.

[pianoguyy]

The truth is, there is no set of answers. And that is one of the reasons why some people, no matter how talented, can't get out of the pizza and beer circuit.
Bands should be ran like a business - with a heirarchy, chain of command, employees, responsibilities. All of these issues would be taken care of.

There are too many variables to give any one-size-fits-all answers. But, I always vote for using an outside sound and light service. They get paid their fee. They do all of the transport and loading.
That way:
1. its done by a professional.
2. there are no monetary issues over "i spent $75k for this pa system but I only make $50 like the rest of you"
3. the one exception to using an outside service is: the singer needs to have a small system for rehearsal. No different than a guitar player needs to have his own guitar.


Beyond that, as said, run it like a business.
Songs don't get done unless they are good for business. As mentioned before - if you have girls at your gig, guys will be at the gig. I've been accused of paying women to attend and work the crowd.
Gig pay can vary, sometimes its good to go for the door rather than sitting at home doing nothing or if its an entry point to the paid gigs. I had Warrant (w/Jani Lane) play for the door at the Metron in Harrisburg. They weren't too big to say no. They were going to sit on the bus and do nothing.
Multi-night gigs get paid less because there is less travel and setup time, but they require per diem (food and lodging). It probably ends up being the same compensation, but for taxes, it is different.
Opening bands are usually new bands that need exposure/experience, they don't get paid. You aren't asking them to pay for the sound, lights, and advertising expenses - are you?
Who drinks when at work, especially on the company tab?

And I think the number one rule to running a business:
Friends and family make horrible employees. How do you fire your best friend. How do let your sister's husband pleasure some groupies.

[Big Al]

Thanks for the responses, seems like some of what has become our standard operating procedure is on course.

1. The guy that owns the PA also handles bookings and also drives the trailer with the PA, drums and drum riser. He gets a sixth man cut (five members in the band). If there is a house PA, no sixth man cut.
2. Singer gets an equal cut but does not provide any equipment...not even his personal mic.
3. If we get a sound guy, he gets 75% of what each member gets. Been trying to do without a sound guy lately. So far each time there is a house PA, they provide a sound tech.
4. We play mostly 80's hair metal so the songs we pick are the ones the girls like. Rather play for a room full of chicks in front of the stage than a handful of dudes with their arms crossed in the back talking about how much better they could do.
5. Lately we never practice. Every now and then we pick up a new song and work things out before sound check.
6. Like has been said earlier, we never pay the opening band. They usually pack up and leave before we finish and get paid. They are also never there to help load in.
7. We never play for the door. In the past if we did we got screwed. Only thing that sucks worse than playing for a very few people is getting paid very little to do it.
8. I guess pay depends upon where you play. We very rarely play more than eighty miles away from our home town and the bars do not pay that well. I guess we are all happy if we net $100 per person.
9. Bar tabs are sometimes an issue still. We ask those who drink to run a tab and we try to settle up at the end of the night but usually it does come out of an offenders pay cut.

[lefty]

Thanks for the responses, seems like some of what has become our standard operating procedure is on course.


4. Rather play for a room full of chicks in front of the stage than a handful of dudes with their arms crossed in the back talking about how much better they could do.

ROtFLMAO! You the man!

[ThePitbullofLove]

1. Does usually one person own the pa? If so, does that person get a extra cut in the pay?
It works out best if one person owns the PA. That way if the band goes south, the "buy out" of members doesn't become an issue. Some bands do allow an extra cut for PA owners/running sound. I never take an extra cut, but luckily, my band kicks ass, so when something breaks (and it will), they've been willing to have "the band" pay to get it fixed or replaced.

2. If a singer does not bring any equipment, does he get the same cut?
You bet he/she does. The singer is the most important member of any non-instrumental band. The singer is who most audience members come to see. Sure a kick ass guitarist/bassist/drummer is great to watch if you're a musician, but for Joe 6-pack, the vocals are the vital part of any band. Just go watch a band with great players and a lousy singer and argue that point with me. A singer can make or break a band, and they brought their voice with them. Hopefully they brought their enthusiasm and ability to communicate and connect with a crowd too...as well as their mic.

3. Does the sound guy get an equal cut?
Yes, unless another arrangement has been made. Remember when I said a singer could make or break a band? So can the quality of sound reinforcement. A great sound person is worth their weight in gold. Pay them accordingly.

4. How do you go about picking new songs?
Someone mentions a song they want to do, and if everyone's cool with it, we learn it. Try it in rehearsal, and if it sounds good, it gets polished up and added to the set. IF it doesn't we determine if it's not a good song for us, and either rehearse it until it works, or trash it. Most importantly, make sure the vocalist can sing the song well. Vocals make or break a cover band.

5. How often does everyone get together to practice?
Initially, we rehearsed twice a week. As we got more comfortable and played more shows, and knew the material better, we rehearsed once a week. We don't really need more than that at this point. Once a week keeps us sharp. Some bands rehearse less than that...we find about once a week to be good for us.

6. If you have a opening band, that is starting out, should the band pay them?
Depends. In our area, most openers play for exposure and a foot in the club we're playing. In another part of the state, openers get payed. When we play there, we strike a percentage deal with the opener. Also, if the opener is travelling, or bringing a big crowd in, or is the hometown band, it's not a horrible idea to compensate them, at least gas/beer money.

7. Do you ever agree to play for the door? Do you trust the bar's door person?
Depends on the venue and our draw/the club's usual crowd size. Usually we work a guarantee or a guarantee vs. the door. I trust the club door person until I have reason not to. I've gotten pretty good at estimating crowd size over the years.

8. What is the typical pay for one and two nights?
IF I don't have to haul my PA? $800-$1500 a night, depending on the venue. If I do have to haul it, tack $200 on top of that.

9. How do you handle members that go over their share of the comped bar tab?


What's a comped bar tab? LOL. Do places still do that? Typically, we either don't have a comped tab (though we do get a discount usually) or they provide us with a few cases of beer in the green room. Depends on the deal worked out on the rider or on the front end. My guys are pretty good about not over indulging, so I don't have that issue too often. IF I do, then I don't for long....