Gibson Goes Bankrupt

[Razor]

Yep!

1. They make it painfully difficult to find a good LP with slim fast neck and large frets. ESP has stolen milllions from Gibson making their Eclipse exactly that way. They got it stuck in their heads that everyone wants 50s thick necks with medium frets.

2. Their prices. Bend over.

3. Why is it so hard to make a black or white (or even nice trans maple finishes) explorer that's rear-routed, bound fretboard, slim neck, large frets, and inlays besides frickin dots? Seriously I want to know. It's not rocket science to figure out what a million metal-heads would buy in the blink of an eye.

4. There's money in metal. A goth Epiphone does not fill that demand. They don't care. They'd rather have that shitstain from Green Day get a sig model than some guy from a Norwegian death metal band.

5. 490R/496T pup set. It's fine in the studios and SGs, but to also use the exact same thing in the $4000 customs? If you want people to pay Oprah-money on the high-end models then how about stepping up what you get on those models? There's Burstbucker pros, dirty fingers, and several other great pups that Gibson rarely uses while Epiphone does use regularly.


It's like Gibson doesn't like money.

Yep!

I'm a Gibson guy and have been since I got my first LP at 15.. a 78 standard that I bought in 85, mint, for $400. Still have it, along with a couple others.. the latest being a 93. Henry j can fuck off. Not glad that Gibson is filing, but it's 100% his fault. A venture capitalist that only cared about $$ and not product, who will im sure escape with a $200 million golden parachute, to help buy another company to ruin.

AND YEP!!!

[xenophobe]

WMI should buy them up. Official Gibsons with WMI build quality would sell like hotcakes.

I wish Jackson would produce one line built by WMI. :\

[euronymous]

ESP stolen more from jackson

But Eclipse with thinner body just cannot create the classic sound of gibson les paul. The magic of gibson les paul sound needs short scale and full thickness body!
I love Gibson les paul, although i admit they are difficult to play, you just cannot beat their sound!

[pianoguyy]

I had a couple Gibsons back in the 80s, I really didn't like them. So I never went back...
Until a couple years ago, someone wanted to trade a recent LP for a guitar that I had grown to absolutely despise. I took the trade just to get rid of it. I ended up liking it.
I mean, I am certainly not going to give up my Jacksons, but it is a far better experience than I had 30 years ago.

As for the business end of things...
There are too many $50,000 anniversary models. How many anniversaries can they have?
How many signature models do they need? How much of a change can you make to a Les Paul to justify another overpriced signature model.
And some Epiphones are now more expensive than some Gibsons? How do they justify a $600 Gibson Les Paul when you can buy an Epiphone for $800.

They can claim that it is everything other than guitars that are costing them money, but no one can deny some odd guitar business issues too.

[Sephiroth]

ESP stolen more from jackson

But Eclipse with thinner body just cannot create the classic sound of gibson les paul. The magic of gibson les paul sound needs short scale and full thickness body!
I love Gibson les paul, although i admit they are difficult to play, you just cannot beat their sound!

No joke, especially with the LTD line as well as targeting pro Jackson players with offers for ESP sig models. It took Jackson a solid decade to respond with cheaper neck-throughs (or set-throughs) to counter LTD, and I still don't think they really put up much of a fight when ESP grabs pro Jackson players.

As far as the thinner body goes look at how much ESP depends on active pups to hedge against tonal characteristics of their guitars. Without EMG they'd be screwed with a lot of models.

NO you can't beat the sound of an LP but I wish they'd make it easier to find one with the right frickin neck

[Number Of The Priest]

As far as the thinner body goes look at how much ESP depends on active pups to hedge against tonal characteristics of their guitars. Without EMG they'd be screwed with a lot of models.

ESP offers models that are also equipped with Duncans and DiMarzios, although you're right, the majority are EMGs.

You may also notice the following relationships:

Jackson + Duncan JB/59
Ibanez guitars + DiMarzio Tone Zone/Air Norton
ESP + EMG 81/85

I imagine the reason for seeing typical guitar/pickup company pairings is that there is likely simply a business relationship. The guitar companies buy pickups in mass quantities from the pickup companies. Economies of scale. For example, Jackson may be buying enormous amounts of JBs and 59s from Seymour Duncan, and that's why there is sometimes the complaint that "I wish Jackson would offer different pickup combinations other than the default JB/59".

Likely the same thing with ESP + EMG.

[eakinj]

in 89 I had a custom Les Paul built, it took 6 months for them to build and ship it to me -- as much as I really did love that guitar, both of my Agiles play and feel just as good as it did and I have never worried about my Agiles getting scratched.

The big problem with Gibson for me is that the price point isn't justified by it's quality, well to be blunt it's the same for Jackson anymore (how much are RR1's brand new now?) I just looked on Musicians friend (yeah just as an example) and everything I saw for les paul custom with a flame top is over 5k and it's entirely because it's got the word gibson on there, nothing at all to do with quality.

It's sad, but Gibson has been run into the ground

Someone here I think mentioned watching the Chapman video tour and then watched the Gibson tour and there was not luthers anywhere in the Gibson video.. just an assembly line with no soul what so ever. it's sad.

[xenophobe]

ESP offers models that are also equipped with Duncans and DiMarzios, although you're right, the majority are EMGs.

You may also notice the following relationships:

Jackson + Duncan JB/59
Ibanez guitars + DiMarzio Tone Zone/Air Norton
ESP + EMG 81/85

I imagine the reason for seeing typical guitar/pickup company pairings is that there is likely simply a business relationship. The guitar companies buy pickups in mass quantities from the pickup companies. Economies of scale. For example, Jackson may be buying enormous amounts of JBs and 59s from Seymour Duncan, and that's why there is sometimes the complaint that "I wish Jackson would offer different pickup combinations other than the default JB/59".

Likely the same thing with ESP + EMG.

^ This more than anything.

If you want a wide body, Navigator and Edwards make a more proper LP copy.

ESP itself is at a more meticulous quality standard than Jackson. And I think the WMI lineup is better than most Jackson imports. But I'm not a brand loyalist. A good guitar is a good guitar.

[Sephiroth]

As of late I'd agree. I don't get Jackson's emphasis on oiled necks for their set-throughs paired with lots of models with EMGs. Are they trying to get Kirk Hammett to play an import Jackson?

[Shultz]

As of late I'd agree. I recommend this helpful D-Bal Max review and don't get Jackson's emphasis on oiled necks for their set-throughs paired with lots of models with EMGs. Are they trying to get Kirk Hammett to play an import Jackson?

I know this sucks for Gibson, but could this be good for the industry as a whole somehow? I hope the rest of the major players are following closely and learning this lesson.

[PowerTube]

I got slightly flamed on here a few years ago for suggesting that Gibson vs. Epiphone wasn't worth the price difference. But according to certain sources, you can upgrade the pickups and hardware on a decent Epi (assuming that you can find one) and come out about the same. I haven't tried it personally, but the Gibsons I've handled, plus the one Les Paul Custom I owned for a whopping three days, haven't impressed me.

But do you want to know what I REALLY hate about Gibson? Their marketing. Between them and lame-ass Guitar Center, it drives me crazy. Phrases like, "Only a Gibson can give you that genuine classic TONE!" and such crap, but clueless kids buy it every day.

I know that a lot of you hated Ed Roman. I, myself, did not. But regardless, read the rants from Gibson owners on his website:

http://www.edroman.com/guitars/gibson.htm

[eakinj]

I'll stick with Agile if I need a les paul shape. gibson is way too expensive and i've never heard anything in their sound that made me think "only a gibson can sound like this" the issue is the quality of work doesn't match the extremely high price.

[PowerTube]

.... i've never heard anything in their sound that made me think "only a gibson can sound like this" the issue is the quality of work doesn't match the extremely high price.

Totally agree. In 1986 I bought a used 1-year old Les Paul Custom. So presumably, it was a 1985 model. It was gorgeous; Cherry Sunburst, all gold hardware, etc.... I could sit and look at it all day. And I did just that until THREE DAYS LATER when I took it back to the store to exchange it. After months of saving money and dreaming of Les Pauls, this thing was a complete dud. I didn't like the sound because it was too harsh and trebly, and it never quite felt right to me, even though every previous guitar I had owned was equipped with a tune-o-matic style bridge.

I've told this story before and it usually brings a few chuckles, but I exchanged it against an import Kramer Focus 1000. I still have that Kramer and a ton of great band memories associated with it.

[pianoguyy]

In 1986 I bought a used 1-year old Les Paul Custom. ... this thing was a complete dud.

If, like me, you did not like your 80s Gibsons...
Try the newer ones. They are cheap enough on the used market. And there are plenty of options - 50s neck, 60s neck. Gloss/painted necks, stained/wood necks.

[P I K A]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWylKk0Y6PU&feature=youtu.be