Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

[Zamiale]

I have wanted to see this documentary for a while. It won an Academy Award in 2002. I knew full well I would disagree with the majority of Michael Moore's views on Bush and the war in Iraq. I believe it is ignorant to blindly follow anything without at least knowing the other side of the story. So I went down to the local Blockbuster video and rented it.

After it was over I was in complete shock. Assuming all of his statistics and figures were true; I began to question what is wrong in this country. (USA by the way)

First of I must first say that I am as patriotic as the next guy on this board when it comes to the United States. I served in the Marine Corps for four years and it looks like I getting ready to get a job with the federal government where I will continue to serve the U.S. This is NOT an America bashing post. I want to discuss a little bit about the documentary.

Lets take a look at the comparison between Canada and the U.S. I know we have some Canadians on the broad and I would really like for you guys to chime in regarding Moore's research.

Canada has the just about the same gun ownership per capita as we do. They watch the same movies, play the same video games, do basically the same things we do, but their murder rate is significantly less than ours. Moore interviewed the Chief of Police in either Alberta or Ontario (can't remember) and he said that one guy was killed in the last three years! One friggin guy! I do not know the population of the city but it pretty significant. Compare that with my hometown of Tulsa OK. Our population is around 500,000 and we had 70+ murders last year. Moore asked people on the street if they locked the doors on their homes. I am sure that some said, "yes", but the ones on the documentary all said "no." Moore than preceded to walk around a residential neighborhood and just open the front door of several homes. The citizens of Canada do not live in fear like the majority of Americans do. There was a whole lot more to this documentary, but this is the aspect I wanted to discuss, which brings me to my question: What is Canada doing that we aren’t, or what we doing that Canada isn't? Basically two identical countries, but the Canadians are not killing each other at an astronomical rate.

Once again I reiterate; I love the U.S.A. I am not leaving. I just want to know why?

[toejam]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

I finally saw this movie about a month ago. I usually think Moore is an idiot and don't care for most of his views, but this movie actually made me start to like him a little, especially the Charleton Heston part and the part where he and the two kids go to K-Mart and get them to stop selling the ammo.

[Venomboy]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

I saw the last 1/2 of the movie. I think Moore is very abrasive and asks questions in a very confrontational way. I immediately disliked him regardless of his political views. Also the Columbine shooters were responsible for their actions, not Kmart.

[toejam]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

Originally posted by Venomboy:
Also the Columbine shooters were responsible for their actions, not Kmart.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sure, but Kmart doesn't need to sell ammo in the first place.

[RattleHead]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

I'll say this as a Canadian, Moore may Canada seem a little better than it really is. Yes, a lot people don't lock their doors. Yes, most people do not live fear. Yes, Canadians watch violent movies and T.V. But, there are murders here, but they are pretty infrequent compared to the states and most of them are gang related and are usually gang member on gang member and not too many civilian murders.

[Accept2]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

I love the movie, but there are many distortions played by Moore, as well as quotes taken out of context. There are webpages out there that go thru it all, so its a waste to do it here.....My question is if Moore thinks the problem is fear, the media and poverty, why pick on Charlton so much. He should have ***** slapped Moore after the film was done...........Also, there are tons of problems in all countries. To say that Michael Moore can solve all your problems is just more democrat crap..........

[markb]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

Canada is safer than the US, but it is catching up slowly to being just the same, unfortunately. There is a strong social safety net here (although slowly eroding) and a very centralised and big govt. As a result, we do not have the severe urban decay and huge ghettos that many US cities have. America also has a long history of a frontier justice mentality that is part of the national mindset in some ways, and we do not have that here. The US is more extreme. The highs are higher, but the lows are lower.
We do lock our doors here, that was just a sugar coating. His picture of Canada is a bit misleading, like its a big commune or something. We are not as gun crazy here either. It is much harder to get guns here, and ammo and whatnot is sold in a very few controlled places. The type of gun here is also different. Its all shotguns and hunting rifles mostly, handguns are really not available here. That is a big difference...there are so many guns for sale in the US which have no other logical use than to shoot humans...revolvers, assault weapons and everything in between. Here there are no such things available for the most part. Police here are probably underarmed, even they don't carry serious firepower. Many Canadian homes may have a rifle, but very very few have a handgun, so we are not gun crazy at all in a specific but important way.

I think the point of the Columbine/kMart thing was that it was far too easy for them to get their hands on a lot of firepower. Up here, it would be almost impossible for them to have gotten that stuff at that age. That does make a bit of a difference.

[Boxcar Willie 84]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

I did a gigantic survey on Columbine in the fall, do a search and you can see the results for yourself...I think that Michael Moore is a bit of a hypocrite, in that he slams mass media for showing certain facts and points on something and blowing certain things out of proportion, when he does the same thing in his own movie.

[Twisteramps]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

This helps explain the Canada part:

http://www.hardylaw.net/canada.html

And this is an interesting website about the movie:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Personally, I wouldn't piss on Moore unless he was on fire, and I could urinate gasoline at will.

Pete

[Boxcar Willie 84]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

I was bored so I found my survey for you...
http://www.jcfonline.com/cgi-bin/ult...;f=17;t=002336

[Ninja Guitar]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

I agree with some of Moore's views, such as fear being something of a problem here in the U.S. (I can't watch the news, it's just pathetic), and the fact that our gun murder rate is so much higher than the rest of the world is a huge problem. Oh yeah, the fact that Moore and I both hate Bush also puts us on the same side. But I could tell the movie was somewhat misleading and stereotypical. Don't forget that this kinda stuff is heavily edited. Although I think the NRA is a bunch dumbasses, I really don't see any reason to go after Charelton Heston.

[RattleHead]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

Moore is extremely left wing and there is nothing wrong with that. But instead of theAmerican ultra-nationalist response people sometimes get "If you don't like it then you can leave." I think it is the responsibility of people who truly care about their country to realise its flaws and try to better them. That's all Moore is doing, just perhaps not in the best way.

[Trypp Powell]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

I honestly believe there are more murders in the US because we are a more violent society than Canada (and many other nations). If guns were outlawed tomorrow (and no one put up a fight surrendering them), I believe this county would still have an incredibly high murder rate. Moore points to a problem, yet fails to offer any insight or solutions. He is too arrogant for my tastes.

I'm neither conservative or liberal (as I find most political groups merely tools to help a few gain power and wealth at the expense of others), so my criticism of Moore is not colored by political party affiliation.

[ApeDosMil]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

I want to leave America and Move to Canada.
I'll have to check this movie out.

[jerseydevil]

Re: Bowling for Columbine. What is wrong with the U.S.?

mike moore is lame! talkin smack to heston in his own home?

WTF? [img]graemlins/band.gif[/img]