What kind of man is our prez?

[the_drip]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

The German population was saying the same thing about Hitler pre-WW2. [img]graemlins/brow.gif[/img]

[shreddermon]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

Ever hear of "separation of church and state"? There are good reasons for it.

[Boxcar Willie 84]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

The German population was saying the same thing about Hitler pre-WW2

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah but the Germans actually elected Hitler. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[DJROBA]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

It's pretty cut and dry. When a civilization kills people and seeks to hurt or destroy another civilization, the people have a right to defend and obolish the threat. We were attacked numerous times before and after 9/11. We simply stated after 9/11 that this kind of behavior will not be tolorated. So we went after the people that attacked us, and went after Iraq for committing similar attacks. Iraq is a pre-emtive strike. Yeah, as far as we know(the common man), they did not attack us yet. Why should we wait for the attack to happen. That would as careless as 9/11. Yeah, we knew that Afganistan was attacking us previously. Yet we did nothing but witness it. When 9/11 finally came to pass, we as America United said, enough is enough. Why people's attention span is so short in the country I live in and Love is so short, I'll never understand. We have waged a war on terrorism. This does not soley mean attacks against us. When your country is doing things that are harmful or destructive to someone else's country, we will probably be there to defend the country that is being attacked. Why, because we are civilized and know that this kind of behaviour is just wrong. The thought that we went after Iraq for there oil is just simply ignorant. And I would love it if such people could back up that claim. To just say words is meaningless. Back up your claims! I can. It is well documented that we've been under constant attack from the middle east for over 30 years. It's time to pay for the dance now. I will never understand why people do not understand the importance to defend and stand up for yourself. We are a country that needs to see the big picture people. If we do not defend our nation, and our believes in Liberty and Justice for all, we will surely loose our freedoms, and our ways of life. As a nation, we can not allow people to be elected into high offices for the sole reason of getting there party in control. That is what the democrates do. Sorry if this upsets you. The democrates only want a person that they can control in any level of office. They do not care if this person is qualified. There bottom line is to be popular. Bush and the republicans work to see that the right things are done. Regardless if it will be popular. I think the president has done an incredible job, and should have another term to see his campaign thru. His presidency just isn't a merrytime one. He was forced into this situation by the rest of the world. We tried to get the UN to show there balls. Turns out they have none. 18 years of being patient is what we gave Iraq. 18 year olds are now able to vote, yet they are clueless to the big picture. It is easy to say I would have done this,or this after the fact. It takes a strong, clear thinking, confident individual to undertake such a huge event such as 9/11, and come out of it still holding your initial decision, and not jumping from side to side just to be popular in an election year. That is not the kind of president I want. I want one that can make the hard decisions, and see them thru. And we have such a man in office right now. I say, "Show some Respect!"

[the_drip]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

I say, "no thanks"

Respect involves him respecting my values...and its apparent to me that Bush doesn't.

[DJROBA]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

We'll unfortunatley, his and my beliefs are the majority in this nation. Like it or not. This country was founded on Christian beliefs, and is still the most practiced belief. It is all the other believes that have come to this country that for some reason need to call us ignorant or whatever. We do not, at least I do not care what your beliefs are until you do or say something to hurt my country and it's foundation. To say you do not respect our president for having the balls to say to the world, Enough is Enough, and then blame it on his Religous beliefs is just wrong. I know that you will argue with me and that's great and all. But this is what just happened .

[monk]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

Originally posted by DJROBA:
We'll unfortunatley, his and my beliefs are the majority in this nation. Like it or not. This country was founded on Christian beliefs, and is still the most practiced belief. It is all the other believes that have come to this country that for some reason need to call us ignorant or whatever. We do not, at least I do not care what your beliefs are until you do or say something to hurt my country and it's foundation. To say you do not respect our president for having the balls to say to the world, Enough is Enough, and then blame it on his Religous beliefs is just wrong. I know that you will argue with me and that's great and all. But this is what just happened .

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What exactly are those beliefs then? And how do they differ from believes in other religions?

[DJROBA]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

I am a born again Christian. The differences are as much a mystery to me as they are to you. As a human being, I say " Believe in whatever you want, as long as it doen't hurt or effect anyone else". Your beleifs should be personal to you and that's it. I believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour. I try to be as supportive as possible if asked. As in any belief, you have people that cross the line and try to shove down your throat their beliefs. I'm not like that, yet I am very passionate about my God. And I expect my fellow man to respect that as I respect their beliefs.

[monk]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

Originally posted by DJROBA:
I am a born again Christian. The differences are as much a mystery to me as they are to you. As a human being, I say " Believe in whatever you want, as long as it doen't hurt or eefect anyone else". Your beleifs should be personal to you and that's it. I believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour. I try to be as supportive as possible if asked. As in any belief, you have people that cross the line and try to shove down your throat their beleifs. I'm not like that, yet I am very passionate about my God. And I expect my fellow man to respect that as I respect their rights.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was not questioning your own beliefs. I was asking what the "christian beliefs that USA was founded on" are, and about how they differ from other religions.

[DJROBA]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

Christians beleive that Jesus Christ died on the cross for us. He died so that our sins can be forgiven. He is the way, the truth, and the life. Only through him, can you recieve everlasting life in heaven. Through Jesus Christ only, will you enter into the kingdom of heaven. It is simply not good enough to be a good person, and to go to church. You need to minister and help people find the word of god. Bring people to know the truth about Jesus. God wants us to be close to him. He longs to have a personal relationship with us. He wants us to love each other as brothers and sisters, and to be kind. He wants us to worship him as our god and creator. He does not condoen violence. It goes on, but this is just some of the beliefs I adhear to as a Christian. Most religions do not differ from this with the exception of idol worship, and ritualistic behavior. The bible clearly states "do not to worship no other God's before me". Well, when you are praying to saints,or statues of Mary or Joseph, that's kinda bad. The only ritual the bible(Jesus)says to do is to have communion, and to pray, and to be baptised(not as an infant by the way). Jesus became born again and was baptised right before he started his ministry. He commanded his disciples to go and baptise the world in his name.


The Christian beliefs have not changed since our independence. It's all over the fabrik of our constitution. Did you know that the "seperation of church and state" is not law, and is only mentioned as a passing thought. This so called legislation is not a reality. Check it out. I am not making this up. Anyway, it's in our constitution, on our currency, it's in our pledge, or national songs,etc... I say, welcome to our country and try to have the best life you can, but do not mess with my countries heritage and beliefs. You are welcome to live here, as long as you respect our laws and heritage. If you can't, then there's a problem. A small problem, yet it is a problem.

[ May 12, 2004, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: DJROBA ]

[lerxstcat]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

Separation of church and state simply meant that the state should not establish a STATE RELIGION - one that everybody would have to join or face persecution.

DJROBA, for example, as a Protestant, insults the idea of "praying" to saints,
widely considered a Catholic practice.
We don't really pray to the saints, we ask THEM to pray for US; it's a little different than spun by Protestant ministers.

So the idea is that the US can't create a
new Protestant state denomination that could then, say, outlaw praying to saints and other activities of Catholics, or of other denominations that the state church disagreed with. We had a direct example of that in the Church of England, which prohibited Catholics from holding office.
That was a direct reason for separation of church and state.

Monk, we believe war is justified for self-defense, which is why we didn't exploit situations when we won as other world conquerors have done. "Thou shalt not kill" doesn't mean you can't defend yourself. We believe that when we see evil being done that can have worldwide ill effects, that we are obligated to stop it if we can. That's what we are trying to do now in the Middle East with
its dictatorial governments, starting with Iraq. The hope is that Iran and Syria will both moderate as Iraq becomes a more open society. Libya's Kadafi has already toned down his rhetoric, and we hope that as represzentative government takes root and the people's literacy and living standards rise, that their hatred of the West, indoctrinated and maintained
by ignorance, will abate.

[sithgt6]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

Originally posted by DJROBA:
Our beleifs do not condoen killings and murder on behalf of our beliefs.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then why have more people died in the name of god than for any other reason throughout history?

D>

[nor]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

Originally posted by the_drip:
If you want a good idea of how crappy life is with Church and State not separated, look no further than the dark ages.

Is that what you want?

People aren't much smarter than they were back then. we just have more resources available to us.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well said.

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

Originally posted by lerxstcat:
Separation of church and state simply meant that the state should not establish a STATE RELIGION - one that everybody would have to join or face persecution.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There's certainly a lot of evidence of that being the original intent. However, judicial decisions have expanded dramatically on what appears to have been the original intent and *are* the law today whether or not any of us agree with them.

[lerxstcat]

Re: What kind of man is our prez?

Originally posted by sithgt6:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DJROBA:
Our beleifs do not condoen killings and murder on behalf of our beliefs.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then why have more people died in the name of god than for any other reason throughout history?

D> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They haven't, really. More people probably died in the two World Wars than in all the other conflicts in history combined, and those wars weren't fought for God, but to stop totalitarian aggressors from achieving world domination. Probably the better part of 100 million people perished in WWII alone. By comparison I don't think the world's total population reached one billion until the beginning of the twentieth century, or shortly before then.

In ancient times armies numbered in the hundreds, then thousands. In the Middle Ages a noble who commanded 500 armed men had a badass army. Armies numbering in the hundreds of thousands were very rare until the 18th century, though Genghis Khan had one hundreds of years earlier. He didn't kill in the name of God either,
btw.