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Re: What kind of man is our prez?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Let's quote-mine a little more from islamic-world.net's thoughts on 9/11 (the most moderate statements of theirs that I could find):
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah yes, if only we'd all live by the "Will of Allah" we'd have a world of peace, love and justice ... just like that everyone in the Middle East is enjoying today.
Moving right along from the minimal pro-forma grieving of the first paragraph we find:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wait for it, here it comes ...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Those vile Americans! How dare they buy our oil at whatever prices we want to charge! How dare they colonize us ... oh wait, that was the French....
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh no, millions of Muslims aren't dying because ISLAM IS A MISERABLE FAILURE. They're dying becaus of the evil Americans (and of course the Jews but everyone knows that the Jews control America anyway - at least everyon who's Muslim).
But wait there's a ray of hope:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pray tell, what must we evil Americans do to reform our ways so that you will deem us worthy of living in peace with your obviously superior society?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah, now I understand. We must remove the dust from Africa! And of course send them bottled water. If only the peaceful, wonderful, enlightened Muslims ruled America we'd all be dhimmi and forced to pay all of our material wealth in jizyah. Then the enlightened Muslim leaders would then use it to do what they've done for their own people already ... nothing.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In particular it must be redistributed to Muslims from dhimmi.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Capitalism, the only truly successful economic system the world has ever seen isn't just unfair, it's EVIL! I wonder whatever would make them say a thing like that?
Watch for it, here it comes again:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I should have known. Allah in his infinite wisdom has provided Muslims with the perfect economic system. I guess they all just enjoy living in mud huts in the desert without indoor plumbing or clean water. But then again, I'm just an evil American, what would I know about the perfect wonders revealed by Islam?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Gosh, I wonder what the model of all that is good an right in the world is could be? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I wonder why? Let's compare: highest standard of living in the world : mud huts in the desert. Hmmm, highest standard of living in the world : mud huts in the desert. Gosh, this is hard? Whyever would anyone want to mimic the evil Americans instead of the perfect and enlightened Muslim cultures of the world? I'm at a loss to explain it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But, but, but, I thought they were open-minded. Flexible. Able to adapt. At least that's what they told me. I just can't understand whatever issue a good Muslim could have with American style democracy. I do hope they'll tell me.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, *that*. I wonder why Muslims wouldn't benefit from popular rule as every other society that's ever tried it has done? Odd.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And of course the Will of Allah (tm) is known only to the priviledged few so there's no need to ignore the whining of the masses when they call for self-determination, free will and liberty. See e.g., Iran.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually I'd call it fascism but that's just me.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Which aspects are, of course, all that flow from secular democracy (as well as secular democracy itself but they already covered that). If only the evil Americans could see the perfection that is Islam we could let them live in peace.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Christianity in America being emasculated because, well, it's not Islam. Right guys?
And yes, everyone's very familiar with your Constitutional prohibition on the practice of Islam. After all, the US government has a long and sordid history of religious repression.
Oh wait, I meant to say, "Islamic governments have a long and sordid history of religious repression." But that doesn't count because Islam is perfect, the Christians have lost their faith and the Jews are just evil because they tricked God into giving them his blessing (covered in the Q'uran and the Hadiths).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Gee, I wonder why he said that? I'm sure I have no idea.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">...flying hijacked airliners into buildings, sending your children into other nations as suicide bombers, random slaughter of civilians, belief that you're divinely destined to dominate the world, burning/mutilation of bodies, and other various and sundry assorted stupidities as specified by the world's one "perfect" and "absolute" religions (just ask a Muslim, they'll tell you).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Need I say more?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't they already have such a society? Why don't they just stay there and enjoy it? Hmmm....
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh I get it: if only we were ALL Muslim there wouldn't be any more problems. Just like there are no problems in any Muslim nation today. Oh wait, I forgot: all the world's problems are caused by Americans (and Jews).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In America we call this sort of thinking "bigotry" and discourage it with much prejudice.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That sounds pretty good ...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I knew it was too good to be true. They didn't mean "innocent brothers and sisters" in a secular humanist sense, they meant "Muslims". After all no Muslim could be a terrorist because terrorism is wrong therefore no action could be taken against any Muslim without that action being "wrong". Hey, I think I'm starting to get the hang of this!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, of course not. He's as innocent as a newborn babe.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm sure they'd like to think that but I've got 1400 years of history to the contrary.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, since you guys were kind enough to point out that Islam and western secular ideals are incompatible I'd say we've reached high noon, no?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This ought to be good.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We can only hope.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And since we learned earlier that the only source of "peace, love, and justice" is Islam that would require ....
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah we must only create a "good, right, and just society" to gain their favor. Remind me one more time what the only possible good, right and just society is? Anyone? I seem to recall that they told us just a bit ago ....
OK seriously, I picked this piece because this is a Muslim's idea of sending condolences for the murder of over 3000 innocent people and the fact that all they can do is espouse the superiority of Islam and attack all of American society so soon after that tragedy speaks loudly for what they truly are. This piece is by no means radical or in any other way out of the ordinary for Islamic thought, it' representative of (and indeed dramatically less radical than) many, many, many other writings I've read. The only good society is an Islamic society, Christians are good people but all modern Christians aren't really Christians, it's their duty to spread the wonders of their perfect religion/society/financial system/political system/legal system worldwide.
No thanks and please pass the ammunition.
Originally posted by Monk:
You are quote-mining.
You are quote-mining.
We commit to do our part in the struggle to rid the world of criminal violence and terrorism, and to help bring about a world of peace, love and justice according to the Will of Allah.
Moving right along from the minimal pro-forma grieving of the first paragraph we find:
It is a telling fact that millions of people throughout the world hate America, and are convinced they do so with good reason.
...people of many of the world's Islamic nations, who rightly consider themselves to have been oppressed and exploited by America and American interests.
There seems to be no question that many million people across the world today are suffering, even dying, both directly and indirectly due to policies and practices of the American government and its allies.
But wait there's a ray of hope:
Unless the real causes of this deep animosity toward America are removed it is naïve to think that it will be possible to stop those who would be willing to use violence to harm America,American citizens or American interests. Terrorism can never be stopped until injustice in all of its forms is stopped.
When you are an African parent sitting homeless in the dust, hungry and thirsty, while your children die slowly before your eyes it is easy to see the blatant unfairness of this economic disparity. Is it then surprising that there will be anger toward America?
Allah has told us that wealth must be equitably distributed among the world's people and nations.
The unfettered capitalism of America and the western nations, which has also now been foisted upon much of the rest of the world, is not fair, it is not just and it is not right - in a word it is evil.
Watch for it, here it comes again:
Islam offers what might be described as a form of limited capitalism, which is fair, just, and right in every aspect, and would result in an equitable distribution of wealth among the peoples and the nations of the world. The introduction of the Islamic economic system throughout the world would be a large step toward correcting past economic injustices, healing the wounds of the exploited masses, and would spread feelings of harmonious unity across the world.
America has pushed upon the world, through powerful and often unfair techniques of social influence, a belief in the myth of itself as a model of everything good and right.
When you look around the world today you see the citizens of most nations striving in a desperate attempt to mimic the look, the language, and the behaviour of Americans. It is often not a pretty sight!
As Muslims we must know that the American form of democracy can never be allowed in a truly Islamic society.
In the American form of democracy any issue is allowed to be put to a vote of the people, and the majority decision prevails upon all.
Can we as Muslims put an issue that has already been decided for us by Allah up for a vote and accept the will of the majority if they vote against the Will of Allah? Of course we cannot, so therefore we can never accept democracy as defined, practiced, and promoted by America. Islam offers a political system that is based on consultation and consensus that allows each individual's voice to be heard, but can never make a decision against the Will of Allah.
The nature of this political process is such that it could easily be described as an Islamic democracy.
We are, and we must remain, critical of all aspects of the American way of life that are in opposition to the Will of Allah.
While America is said to welcome Muslims in their practice of the religion of Islam, we wonder if this Islam we are being so welcomed to practice is truly the Islam given to us by Allah in the Qur'an and in the sunnah of our beloved Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him); or, will they allow us only to practice a weakened and secularized parody of true Islam, similar to that emasculated form of Christianity 'practiced' by the millions of nominal Christians in America and the rest of the western world that seems to blow with the ever changing winds of social fashion and human opinion?
And yes, everyone's very familiar with your Constitutional prohibition on the practice of Islam. After all, the US government has a long and sordid history of religious repression.
Oh wait, I meant to say, "Islamic governments have a long and sordid history of religious repression." But that doesn't count because Islam is perfect, the Christians have lost their faith and the Jews are just evil because they tricked God into giving them his blessing (covered in the Q'uran and the Hadiths).
We must remember it was not many years ago that a leader of the United States Congress stated in an address to the people of America, "Now with the fall of communism the only remaining threat to the American way of life is Islam".
The leaders of America and leaders of nations subordinate to American interests often refer to "religious extremism" among Muslims. This 'religious extremism' they refer to sometimes includes such traditional Islamic practices as: Muslim sisters wearing the hijab (head scarf);Muslim brothers having beards, wearing turbans, or dressing in a tradition Islamic manner; praying regularly five times a day; praying too often at the masjid (mosque); or,believing that it is obligatory to live according to sharia (the Laws of Allah).
The leaders of America and the western nations have made the term "fundamentalist Muslim" almost synonymous with the word terrorist. The term 'fundamentalist' as it refers to religion simply means, one who believes in the fundamental truths and doctrines of their religion. The term 'fundamentalist' is so alien to Muslims it would never be used by them. In Islam, if you are not a 'fundamentalist' Muslim you are not a Muslim.
Ultimately, America and the rest of the non-Muslim world must come to know and accept that all Muslims believe with good reason that they are responsible to Allah to help create a human society living fully and truly according to the Will of God, and most, if not all, Muslims will never cease in their efforts until that most sacred goal is achieved. This is the reality of Islamic faith and practice.
Now is the time for Muslims across the world to stand tall and stand united, it is the moment for Muslims to be strong and to be proud, for we have in the Islam given to us by Allah in His Mercy the answer to every terrible problem presently threatening to destroy human society.
The followers of Islam are better placed to determine what constitutes a good, right, and just society than any other sector in today's world.
The non-Muslim world, as they decide how best to act against those they accuse of aiding, abetting, or carrying out acts of criminal violence or terrorism, must never ignore the fact that Islam does undeniably place high and binding obligation upon every Muslim to come to the aid of their innocent brothers and sisters anywhere in the world if they are attacked.
If America and the world's other non-Muslim governments do not rightly carry out this battle against evil, Muslims and Islamic nations would no longer be able to legitimately offer their support and assistance. If it ever becomes clear that innocent Muslims are suffering or dying due to this "war against terrorism" being carried out in a wrong and unjust manner, all Muslims and Islamic nations should immediately withdraw their support from those responsible for bringing about this harm, and offer assistance to their brothers and sisters who have become the victims of wrongful violence.
We do not think sufficient evidence has so far been presented to feel sure that Osama bin Laden is responsible for the tragic deaths of thousands in America.
We would not like to think followers of Islam would ever perpetrate such appalling acts.
It is our hope and our prayer that this "war against terrorism" will not turn into a vicious quest for revenge which could so very quickly transform itself into the "clash of civilizations", Western secular materialism against Islam, which many believe is inevitable.
At this critical point in human history the United States of America must make a most crucial choice.
America in its grief can choose to exercise its unprecedented military and economic power in an orgy of vengeance, relentlessly crushing helpless 'enemies' both real and imagined, reveling in its role as the world's sole remaining superpower, ...
...or America can choose to honour the memory of those who died so tragically by using its great power and influence to mark that moment of madness as the beginning of the creation of a future world of peace, love, and justice.
If America and the world's other governments in their completely justified, very necessary, and much overdue "war against terrorism" will also commit part of this long and difficult struggle to the creation of a good, right, and just society, if they do so in a way that follows the accepted standards of justice, and if they harm no innocent citizens of any nation in the process, ....
OK seriously, I picked this piece because this is a Muslim's idea of sending condolences for the murder of over 3000 innocent people and the fact that all they can do is espouse the superiority of Islam and attack all of American society so soon after that tragedy speaks loudly for what they truly are. This piece is by no means radical or in any other way out of the ordinary for Islamic thought, it' representative of (and indeed dramatically less radical than) many, many, many other writings I've read. The only good society is an Islamic society, Christians are good people but all modern Christians aren't really Christians, it's their duty to spread the wonders of their perfect religion/society/financial system/political system/legal system worldwide.
No thanks and please pass the ammunition.
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