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**sully** · 05-31-2004, 09:14 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

Originally posted by Immortal:
So, tell me, is a worn to the wood guitar really that necessary to make you famous? I must admit, they're both big music icons, but I just cannot understand what they had to have those shitty worn to the wood guitars?
Is this showing that Fender finishes are that bad or they want to pump up their reputation with worn out look?

they got that way over time. it also has nothing to do with shitty finishing, and i'm sure that jim shine could be more informative on this, but those old finishes were thin, and over time, did not wear well.

Originally posted by Immortal:
AFAIK everyone here at JCF has the will to keep his guitar in mint condition and that's the only way to keep it original and nice.

not me. i don't go out of my way to band guitars around, but i'm more concerned with how they play. sure, i like guitars that look nice, but i'm not going to have a panic attack if i get dings, etc. i also don't care about keeping things original. if the pickups aren't my taste, they go, if i wanna change the finish, it goes, if i want to change the hardware, so be it.

Originally posted by Immortal:
Vaughan was saying that his guitar plays like no other. Okay then, but you can still buy the exact model with exact specifications.

doesn't mean it will play or sound the same.

Originally posted by Immortal:
Don't tell me, that you can love your guitar so much you won't renew or change it. From the love of your guitar you don't wear your finish down, unless it's not bad finish work. What I am saying is that they did it on purpose to show people how hard they try to make good music.

no, they just played the ever-living shit out of them, and maybe felt that all the battle scars added character and brought them closer together, so to speak. dude, if you go on tour, your guitars are going to show it.

Originally posted by Immortal:
Do you think that with normal playing abilities you can wear down the finish in a glimpse?

no, but years of touring can certainly help.

Originally posted by Immortal:
I don't mind minor scratches from playing and so on, but these guitar are worn down in such unbeliavable places... That makes me puke.

different strokes, i guess... i think they're cool. i wouldn't want one just like it, but i've had my main guitar for 17 years, and the finish shows it.

Originally posted by Immortal:
Sure, a tour can be boring while you're driving in your bus. Just take sandpaper and show to the people how hard you're trying to satisfy them.

no....when rory and srv were touring, they were more than likely too busy packing their sinuses with blow to be worried about it. most touring musicians look at their guitars as tools, not museum pieces.

**eddie_van_earache** · 05-31-2004, 09:19 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

guitars are tools.

I have a charvel that was a bedroom player 20 something years old...mint...and I got one that I played out same age.... IT SHOWS it big time...

ANd my first charvel is magical its what I learned on and nothing feels the same nothing.....

**Jim Shine** · 05-31-2004, 10:01 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

The old nitrocellulose lacquer was not only thin, but it literally deteriorates over time, so it continues to thin as it ages. In its day it was a premium finish. Though more durable finishes have been invented, nothing else feels quite like it, or looks quite like it.

Why do people like them aged? Well, they do feel better. An old broken in and worn neck feels alot like an oiled Charvel neck. The relic guitars attempt to capture that. However, what they do not nail is the patina of the originals. They come close, but no cigar. To my eyes the natural crazing of an old lacquer finish is as beautiful as any figured top or graphic finish. The same appearance is what makes vintage furniture worth more in original finishes rather than refinished.

As far as does natural playing wear a guitar? Yeah, the old nitro anyway. I see wear marks on maple fretboards forming after a year of occasional play with the old style nitro (not new reformulated types), so a guy who played a guitar every day for years would wear it down extensively.

FWIW, alot of SRV's guitar wear was there when he bought it.

**sully** · 05-31-2004, 10:05 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

jim shine... you sir, are an asset to the forum.

...oh, and looks like someone needs a fret job! [img]graemlins/poke.gif[/img]

sully

**Immortal** · 05-31-2004, 10:05 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

jsullyx, of course, I agree that guitars aren't a body part or something. But you can be more careful about them of you want to. I clean it each time I play it and I always look for finish cracks. I can say, my guitars looks like the day they were brought from the shop. And I was also playing gigs and other things, but there was always me, who was packing my stuff into the car to move to the next place we played.

not me. i don't go out of my way to band guitars around, but i'm more concerned with how they play. sure, i like guitars that look nice, but i'm not going to have a panic attack if i get dings, etc. i also don't care about keeping things original. if the pickups aren't my taste, they go, if i wanna change the finish, it goes, if i want to change the hardware, so be it.

Okay, what would you chose: a guitar that is worn out and plays very good or the one that looks killer and also plays the same as the first one?

doesn't mean it will play or sound the same.

Every company with commercial goals are dying to make something for someone. I am sure they would do a exact replica with no charge. If they can do it now, they could od it in that time.
Vaughan's Strat wasn't that unique that it couldn't be duplicated.
I haven't found a series production guitar that couldn't be duplicated. Of course, you can have two exactly the same guitar and the pot of the first one dies tomorrow and from the second one never.

I don't think SRV hadn't have any problems with it.

I have a charvel that was a bedroom player 20 something years old...mint...and I got one that I played out same age.... IT SHOWS it big time...

ANd my first charvel is magical its what I learned on and nothing feels the same nothing.....

I understand, but I bet your guitar isn't that worn out that SRV's or Rory's.

Maybe I was too hard in the beginnig, but I still cannot understand how a guitar can be so worn out just because you play it.
I've seen Clapton's famous 1970 Strat and I say that this is the worn out look that is made by playing. His guitar wasn't even nearly that worn out than SRV's or Rory's.

[ May 31, 2004, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Immortal ]

**Jim Shine** · 05-31-2004, 10:14 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

Thanks Sully!

Immortal, cleaning the guitar had nothing to do with it. With the old nitro finishes cleaning them all the time would wear them out faster. The dirt is embedded in the wood.

The Relic replica SRV guitars are more or less a playable showpiece for the die hard SRV fan. I feel we should all wear our own guitars out, but hey, Fender has been selling Relics for almost 10 years now, so there is demand. Did you hear about the Randy Rhoads relic at the last NAMM show?

**Immortal** · 05-31-2004, 10:14 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

Jim, so, there were objective reasons ... Thanks for that info. I couldn't image what were Rory and SVR doing with their guitars, since they weren't that aggressive at all.
Of course, some SVR handles were amazing and hard, but not too rought that could so much destroy the finish.

I agree, the worn in things are very nice to look and use.
Isn't that a problem of every maple fingerboard, since every maple FB is laquered?

I had an Ibanez which had a crank in the neck pocket. I could see the finish from side and I was wondering how much time of intense playing would it need to wear it out. Strange.

Jim, new finishes seems very rigid to me. Are they somehow connected with polyester, so they become more plastic whey they dry?

**sully** · 05-31-2004, 10:15 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

now, being devil's advocate....let's say you find a finish crack.... what are you going to do about it? have the guitar refinned? wetsand and buff the area, in hopes that you'll get rid of the crack? or.... do you just live and let live?

clapton's 1970s strat is different from the ones listed, as the others are older by at least a few years. srv's #1 guitar is a 63 neck on a 64 body, or something to that extent.

all in all, what you're finding appaling is what happens naturally with a ton of use and abuse, mixed with a nitrocellulose finish.

sully

**Immortal** · 05-31-2004, 10:16 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

Jim, I know what relics are. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

I had in mind a SRV's original Strat, that was worn out by him.

**Jim Shine** · 05-31-2004, 10:16 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

Give me an example of new finish. There are many types of finishes used today. There are also many different formulations of nitrocellulose lacquer for different applications.

**Immortal** · 05-31-2004, 10:19 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

Originally posted by jsullysix:
now, being devil's advocate....let's say you find a finish crack.... what are you going to do about it? have the guitar refinned? wetsand and buff the area, in hopes that you'll get rid of the crack? or.... do you just live and let live?

Cracks aren't a problem and don't get me wrong. I would refinish my guitar if it'd look like Rory's or SRV's.

**Jim Shine** · 05-31-2004, 10:20 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

I never seen Clapton with a 70's Strat. Are there pics of it anywhere?

**Immortal** · 05-31-2004, 10:20 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

Originally posted by Jim Shine:
Give me an example of new finish. There are many types of finishes used today. There are also many different formulations of nitrocellulose lacquer for different applications.

For example, Jackson finishes (especially MG series).

**sully** · 05-31-2004, 10:22 AM

Re: Worn to the bone

Originally posted by Immortal:
Jim, so, there were objective reasons ... Thanks for that info. I couldn't image what were Rory and SVR doing with their guitars, since they weren't that aggressive at all.
Of course, some SVR handles were amazing and hard, but not too rought that could so much destroy the finish.

srv beat the hell out of that guitar! i wouldn't call him a passive player at all.

and yeah, most new finishes are polyester, which is practically bulletproof.

back to the replica thing... you can certainly reproduce exact copies of guitars, but it's still not going to sound the same. those old guitars really warmed up when the finish...opens up, for lack of a better term. jim can describe it better than i can, i'm sure.

sully

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