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  • #61
    Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

    Originally posted by fett:
    Let's get back on track and leave the Civil War: War between the States; the Rebellion or whatever you want to call it for another thread. And then [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] duck.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe that "The Late Unpleasantness" was historically the most 'civilized' term for it... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Anyway, to give a somewhat short statement of my version--the Civil War was *partially* about slavery. The issue of slavery in the emerging western territories had been an issue for decades, and it was probably the most emotional and deeply dividing issue between North and South. The failure of the Missouri Compromise to really settle the issue undoubtedly was the deepest cause of strife leading to Southern secession.

    But the 'slavery only' theorists conveniently ignore the fact that the issue of tariffs on imported goods was as big an issue to the combatants as was slavery--even if it was not the issue that ultimately had the bigger impact on our society. Northern states favored high tariffs to protect the fledging industrial sector in the North. In contrast, the Southern states were much more reliant on exporting their crops (especially cotton and tobacco) abroad and were greatly hurt when European countries increased their tariffs on U.S. goods in retaliation for our tariffs. That was actually the triggering event for secession, if I recall my history correctly.

    The U.S. government did not harbor any notion of forcing the emancipation of southern slaves at the beginning of the war--not until the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation, actually, which Lincoln proclaimed primarily in an attempt to disrupt the South through slave revolts. Although Lincoln was a moderate abolitionist, he was not of the fanatical John Brown variety--who favored the war as a tool to force abolition on the South.

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    • #62
      Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

      Originally posted by Evol:
      </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Sephiroth:

      NASCAR sucks by the way. They're the biggest pack of tools I've ever seen with not even being allowed to race until the car is covered from bumper to bumper in ads, and the worst part is how the drivers think they actually look cool in bright red jumpsuits with logos for Viagra and laundry soap on them.
      <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm,as opposed to all the other types of racing that don't have sponsors???? Not to mention other sports... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They all have sponsors, but none are as bad as NASCAR to where the rules of being allowed to race are written around sponsorship.

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      • #63
        Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

        NASCAR ain't my cup of tea. F-1 and Superbikes are the way to go!


        Fong

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        • #64
          Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

          Hey Wolfe 13,

          Sounds like your friend needs to be deported big time! If he won't leave on his own than he should be "escorted" out and never allowed to return.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

            They all have sponsors, but none are as bad as NASCAR to where the rules of being allowed to race are written around sponsorship.
            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And again, there are no "rules" that state that you can't race without a sponsor. Where are you getting this? [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] It does happen to where someone drives w/out a sponsor. It's just easier to have one, that way someone else is paying for it. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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            • #66
              Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

              At this point, the US Presidential election is the most important thing in the world in relation to fighting worldwide terrorism. If John Kerry wins, look for Iraq to become Vietnam Part II. As someone previously posted, look for more candelight cermonies as opposed to real action in response to terorist acts.

              Two years ago, all Democratic members of congress were ranked in terms of Liberalism. In that huge list, John Kerry was #1 !!! , the most liberal congressman in the United States.

              For the sake of the world, everyone better hope and pray that John Kerry does not win the election.

              As for my view toward the middle east:

              1. Huge stockpile of US nuclear weapons
              2. High gas prices
              3. Terrorist nations

              Coincendence? Problem? I think not...... the solution is obvious.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

                Originally posted by Greg Crowe:

                For the sake of the world, everyone better hope and pray that John Kerry does not win the election.
                <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Its either that or hope that somebody nuke those bloody terrorists to dust before they do any more damages.


                Fong

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

                  Russia and Israel are under terrorist atack daily.
                  I fail to see how they are winning their war on terror.
                  I haven't heard anything on China, so, I can't comment on that.
                  The only way Israel could possibly win their war on terror is Genocide.
                  You know the right wingers in Israel and the neoconservatives here are working on it...

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                  • #69
                    Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

                    Ahhhh, good old genocide...

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

                      Originally posted by A.Pulverizer:
                      Russia and Israel are under terrorist atack daily.
                      I fail to see how they are winning their war on terror.
                      <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was mostly pointing out that these nations are far less squeamish about employing force than is the US.

                      For example, in the mid 90s when the Russians laid seige to Grozny, they initially dispatched 1000 troops complete with armor in an attempt to dislodge the rebels without massive suffering by the civilian residents. When most of that first wave were slaughtered, the Russians laid down an artillary barrage that took nearly 30,000 lives and left Grozny in ruin. You'll note that the US hasn't done the same thing in Iraq despite facing enemies similarly entrenched among the civilian population.

                      Israel has had great success against terrorists in the last few months. After four years of very active attacks by the Palestineans during their Intifada, the Israelis hadn't suffered an attack by a suicide bomber in the past 3 months until today and that's nearly a miracle for them. Their current strategy of destroying homes of those who support terrorists, walling off the suicide bombers, and popping every terrorist leader they can find (all over a loud chorus of international objections) is clearly working very very well. Once they were finally fed up enough with the ongoing violence to ignore the screams of outrage emanating from the UN et al. and do what was necessary, they've done well: Palestinean public opinion is turning against the terrorists (at least according to the media), attacks are way way down, and even Arafat is begging for a truce.

                      But those things are beside the point, said point being the instances like Grozny and Tiananmen Square demonstrate very clearly that the Russians and Chinese are completely unafraid of applying overwhelming force to even relatively minor situations. And the Israelis have shown their ability to do so time and again as they've fought for their survival against all odds for the past half century. Compare that to the US where an entire American administration can be brought to its knees because the media is angry that some terrorist was offended by having women's underwear put on his head. Very very big difference.

                      [ June 27, 2004, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: YetAnotherOne ]
                      Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

                        Screw Nascar, Europeon Racing is way better [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

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                        • #72
                          Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

                          Screw all racing on more than 2 wheels. [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]
                          Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam!

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

                            Eh, I hate this crap.
                            [BS]
                            So my roomate, a regular ol dumb white boy I grew up with, we partied, tripped, stoned, etc etc in the day is now Muslim and personally I believe brainwashed beyond comprehension. Having lived with him a long time, and tasted his beliefs first hand, yep, brainwashed.

                            So he went to see Fahrenheit 9/11 today. This guy never goes to movies, has no friends outside of his Mosque, but musta went with them.
                            Hmm, how odd, why would they be interested in this? It's not like a cool sci-fi flick or such, it's a big propaganda movie to me.
                            Well, now he's beyond brainwashed, hasn't a clue about politics, but thinks with a passion he understands it completely now, and hates Bush.
                            I ask what interest this was to him, he has no sensible answer. I told him this movie was a buncha propaganda that wasn't objective, but written by someone who doesn't like Bush, and he says 'whatever'. His pic must be under gullible in the dictionary.
                            He has never voted, never cared, so I had to ask 'So you gonna vote for Bush?' knowing that this movie turned him against Bush. He's obviously like 'No' and I ask him, do you have any clue of Bush's opponents views, and why we'd be any better off with someone else?
                            He has no answer for anything, cept no to Bush.
                            I'd have to say, God bless this country for the ability to voice our opinions freely without fear of persecution, but dam, in times like these, last thing we need is more internal distrust.
                            So anyone seen this movie? Gawd, I hate politics.
                            Look at the user voting on imdb
                            http://imdb.com/title/tt0361596/ratings
                            It's nothing but extremes, you either love Bush beating or hate it.

                            And how about non-US user votings, o I bet they like Bush beating
                            http://imdb.com/title/tt0361596/ratings-international

                            Now are they voting on the quality of the movie? or their political viewpoint. Hmmm.

                            Have I mentioned I hate politics? I'll admit, I haven't the slightest clue about politics. I don't care. But seeing someone as uneducated instantly think they are 'in the know' I just wanna bitchslap em.

                            [/BS]

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                            • #74
                              Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

                              Originally posted by Chameleonfong:
                              </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Greg Crowe:

                              For the sake of the world, everyone better hope and pray that John Kerry does not win the election.
                              <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Its either that or hope that somebody nuke those bloody terrorists to dust before they do any more damages. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sadly it's not going to happen before they do more damage (they'll do plenty) but it'll happen eventually once they step over the line with nations who aren't as squeamish as the US about applying force (e.g., Russia, China, Israel, etc.).
                              Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: South Korean hostage \'beheaded\'

                                No, those countries will probably just blame the US for them being on the receiving end of terrorist acts.

                                Turkey is already blaming us for the four turkish hostages being held and soon to be beheaded. They are in the streets already protesting Bush.

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