Van Halen Sues Orioles

[Newc]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

[ QUOTE ]
I say learn those solos note-for-note, then write even ONE song with a better solo than any of Ed's, and then maybe you can critique
the guy's soloing ability.

I'd say every solo on the first 4 albums was classic and creative. If they don't make sense to you, maybe you're not analyzing them
to see the form and structure that's there.
If you simply don't like his solos, that's your prerogative. To say he's not a lead guitarist, it sounds like you think you're better. Do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't need to learn his "solos" to "earn the priveledge" of pointing out his lack of melodic focus. How hard is it to compose a solo that compliments not only his own rhythm patterns, but also the lyrical melody?
And do I think I'm better? From what I've heard of both myself and EVH's playing, I'd say I have a better ear for melody than he does, or at least better than what he's put out. I'm all for individual interpretation, but you can listen to something like Frank Zappa and tell that even though he's way outside the melody of the song (if it has one), he's in total control of it. EVH sounds like he was TRYING to sound like he was doing it on purpose to sound "out", when in fact it sounds more like "ok, here's the solo, lemme just do a bunch of quick fills and some tapping and some whammy barring and a few more scalar fills and then get back to the rhythm"

Come on guys, stop looking at it like it's 1978 and you just saw or heard Eruption for the first time. Yeah it was flashy and cool for the day because the others who were doing it (Blackmore) weren't as heavily advertised, but this is 2004 - time to face the facts that all EVH had (or showed) for the guitar world was flash and bang, not musical ability.

You guys explain it to me then - how exactly did EVH become such a Guitar God?

Newc

[Imayeres]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

very well said

[horns666]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

Well Ed was a true guitar God ...his fire , tone , and style and flash was something that was not seen nor heard until he hit the scene..

He's also a major innovator when it comes to the art of guitar in general ...his approach , designs , needs and his execution in all these things has influenced everyone in one form or another ..

he single handedly made Floyd Roses , Tapping , Speed , custom guitars , effects , variacs and modding amps for awesome tones has become mandatory for all players world wide...that's why..

He was the most influential person the guitar world has ever seen...

but that was then and this is now..

Unfortunaletly Ed was tired of being a "guitar hero" and his skills did not evolve or improved with him over time..

unlike other players like ...Vai , Satch , Gilbert , Zakk , Uli and the like ...they just get better...but they all took what Ed did and ran with it ...with the exception of Uli...he's in a class all his own...BUT they all repected and took a lot from EVH..

including George Lynch , Randy , YJM , Greg Howe , Gilbert , Satch , Vai , Criss Oliva , Hammet , and just about everyone you can think of..

Ed is the reason I play guitar today as many of us....That's powerful ...that's a god!

Ed's power is real ...it's something you can see , hear and feel and it inspires ...that's more than I can say about a lot of "Gods"..

[Imayeres]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

i remember when i was a wee little ripper i used to put on my moms underwere...i mean i painted my old squire to look like evh's. he was a big influence on me

[horns666]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

Yep he has touched and changed many of us for life ...but he's mortal ...therfore all great people are vunerable , weak and will eventually die.

even tho ED is human ...his legacy and his contribution to electric guitar / amps and playing abilties will be forever immortal...now that the closest thing to "god" status you can get.

[lerxstcat]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

Newc, listen to the solo in "Push Comes to Shove"; it's a tribute t Holdsworth mainly, but it's NOT just flash AT ALL; it's very melodic and slightly "outside" but fits the song perfectly.

I'm not knocking your playing; I haven't even heard it. I'm just saying that in learning most of his early stuff, I DO see form and melody in it, though he goes somewhere between the jazz and rock norms in his somewhat outside the box solos.

You have every right to not like those solos, but to say they're without thought or melody and that Ed's not a lead guitarist is simply incorrect.

[horns666]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

NEWC said that Eddie can't write a melodic solo...what???!!! [img]/images/graemlins/what.gif[/img]

wow that's like saying Jenna can't suck a dick.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[toejam]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

Just listen to the solo in I'll Wait. The whole song is Eddie on keyboards, but when he kicks in with the guitar solo, man! [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] That solo still does it for me 20 years later. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix did more with more effects years earlier.

"Approach" and "needs" are extremely vague. Ed has admitted that the reason his guitar only had one pickup was because he ripped them out and couldn't figure out how to wire them back up to the switch.

Amp mods: Ed was the highest-profile user of those mods, but I doubt he invented them (a guy that can't wire a Strat 5-way, but he can mod an amp?).

Floyd Roses: As I recall Floyd Rose was a friend of Ed, and since he knew Ed was wearing out his v-trem (just as Floyd was, which led to the locking trem design), he passed it to Ed. Ever notice that Ed's Charvels had a Floyd, whereas everyone else at the time had to get them from or on a Kramer? Floyd gave them to Ed.

Speed:
Ritchie Blackmore. You know, that guy that dresses like Yngwie?

I can understand that people idolize Rhoads because of his combining Classical with rock music and almost total lack of Pentatonic forms (even Blackmore was still using Pentatonics with his Classicals), and the fact the he died after only 2 studio albums, and everyone thought (thinks) the 3rd studio album would have really been "definitive" for Randy (though they always ignore the fact that Randy was not going to stay with Ozzy for a 3rd studio album), however, Eddie did not die young. He didn't advance in ability, either.

Newc

[lerxstcat]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

What do guitar wiring and amp mods have to do with PLAYING the guitar? Exactly nothing; great if you can do it, but a great tech who sucks on guitar still sucks on guitar. Randy using no pentatonics? Listen again! He may mix 'em up with other scales and modes, but there's lots of pentatonics in Rhoads' playing. Uli Roth was doing more classically-influenced stuff in Scorpions in 1975 than Randy was in 1980, but he wasn't a cute little guy like Randy. He also didn't get the Ozzy gig. Glad you mentioned Blackmore, since both Randy and Ed took more from him than either admitted to. Randy actually mixed some pentatonics and chromatic passing tones in ways similar to Blackmore's, though Randy didn't have the cool hand vibrato Blackmore did.So Ed took the Floyd Rose that his friend invented and which stayed in tune so much better than the v-trem. This was a mistake or snowjob how? Don't you want a Floyd trem too? Why shouldn't Ed?Page and Hendrix? I like them both, but both can be rightly tagged with the mindless noodling label, too, especially Page. He was HORRIBLE live in The Song Remains The Same movie, don't you recall? Couldn't play his own solos to save his life. Hendrix? Out of tune most of the time (Ed knew to use oil on the nut and trem, why not Jimi?). Spaced out terribly on acid between inspired moments and sounded like utter ****.Ed can play his recorded solos more or less exactly; neither Page nor Hendrix usually did, and they didn't play something better either. Does that mean they can't play lead either?

[horns666]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

Nobody has brought guitar to the forefront as Ed did..not Hendrix , Yngwie , Page , Clapton or Beck..Ed gave birth to shred ...period

All the greatest players worshipped him all the chicks liked him ....

He used a variac to turn his amp down to 90 volts (brown sound), his dad had it in the garage..which gave him more compression and gain at lower volume levels , used power drills as sound effects , invented the roll off slap echo thing in Cathedral , used splapped octave harmonics in woman in love , depressed dive bombs , came up with some innovative tapping as in Judgement day and Mean streets , even playing to up and down sweeps of a flanger as in Unchained , the palm muted phaser swish on Atomic Punk , plugs his keyboard into his marshall like in Cradle will rock , Frankenstrat was the birth of custom and self assembled guitars , The very first "signature" guitar , The very first "signature" amp ..I could go on ....but most important he showed the world what a guitar is really supposed to sound like ...his tone and the way he achieved it is a very mysterious and sought after phenom ..that has been never duplicated ...many have tried and came pretty close ...but he cultivated it

He made more use with effects than Hendrix ..Jimi just had a wah , fuzzface , octiva , later on he used some studio effects as flange and chorus.

Yes there was some very groundbreaking players coming out just before Ed ..Page , Hendrix , Beck , Uli , Blackmoore ..

But Ed just took the ball and ran and just kept on runnin' ...with the devil!

Then he got old and lazy and don't give a crap anymore...but he sparked a love for guitar unlike any other single person on the planet..

because he was perfect ...in performance , originality , flash , presence and certainly tone....a true visionary...and the most over the top shredder up to that time and some time afterwards..he held the first readers choice poll guitar award and kept it until I believe '85 or 1986..

Eds influence is all around us ..in our gear and playing in one form or another ..all of us...even you NEWC. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I would say without question that EVH is the most single influential guitarist that has ever existed..

who's with me on that statement..

[horns666]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

Ed went on record very early in his poplarity and stated that "Page plays like a two year old live"..yeah he was cocky but he could back it up

On their first big tour with Sabbath Tony threw his axe backstage and insisted that punk was stealing all his riffs..

George Lynch was an established up and coming guitar hero here in the states until a band called Mammoth opened for them and absolutely crushed Lynch and took all the glory after one single show...Gene Simmons was in the audience to see George not Van Halen.

Randy went on record that all he does is "pretend he's eddie van halen"..while soloing.

He was a major inspiration to Malmsteen , Via , Satch , Gilbert , Macalpine , Greg Howe , Jason Becker , ...hell , everyone who is anyone .

[lerxstcat]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

Well, everybody thought that Page sucked live, Ed was just the first with the balls to say so in an interview. Hell, Pagey was smacked out and living on banana dauquiris with protein powder for a few yars there! He was much better when I saw Page/Plant, though the guy from the Cure played a lot of the good solos.

AS for the power drill, think he actually got that from Gilbert, not vice versa - and Gilbert actually played with it, not just rev it where the pickups would reproduce it. I saw him do that with Racer X a few years before "Poundcake" came out.

Other than that, Bill you nailed it on the head! Ed found the sound, and inspired a million guitarists and a hundred thousand bands!

[Newc]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

Rich - The amp and Floyd stuff was first mentioned by Bill, which is what I was responding too.
And while EVH had good riffs and rhythms, all I said was that he wasn't a spectacular soloist, even for the time. There were quite a few others at the time who were both technically and melodically better than Ed.
Could Ed have done 4 albums of "Eruption"? I doubt it. Could Blackmore or Uli or Schenker have done instrumental albums? Most likely.
Don't forget Santana.

The power drill was just the drill motor through the pickups. Paul Gilbert used it to pick with.
Ed had the MXR Phase90 and that was it, and he didn't use it in very inventive ways. Hendrix had a Rotovibe and Wah as well as the FuzzFace and Octavia as mentioned, and used them creatively as opposed to just "on". Page invented reverse reverb and pushed simple effects like Compressors beyond their previously-accepted limits, not to mention the mixing and micing innovations. Page also did things with other instruments like the Theramin that Ed tried to duplicate with synths and delays (Cathedral, Sunday Afternoon in the Park, etc)

However, we're not discussing those things - the issue here is Eddie's soloing and the "God" status given to him based on his soloing.

Page was not trying to be a Guitar Hero, but he WAS anyway. He wasn't technically accurate all the time, but he had a melodic sensibility and that's what mattered, not being balls-on accurate and monotonous every time he played. You wanna hear the solo like it is on the record: Listen to the record.

And yes, the track-by-track review is coming.

Newc

[horns666]

Re: Van Halen Sues Oreos

The phrasing in Stairway is awesome ...

Ed is still the most inflential bastage there was .

which makes him "immortal" which is the closest thing you can get to "god" status..

Don't worry Page is amoung the ranks ...he earned his stripes as well ...so did Hendrix and Clapton* ..Beck..etc.

If it weren't for them ..Ed wouldn't be around to influence everybody.. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

* I personally think that Clapton is highly overrated.