Poll: How are you voting this year?

[lerxstcat]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

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The sooner and harder we hit terrorist-backing countries, the better. Iran and Syria support terrorists and their governments need to cut the crap or be deposed. Iran in particular has a large Western-looking population in their 20s and 30s; depose the ayatollahs and it could be a pro-Western democracy.

[/ QUOTE ]Not trying to be argumentative, but do you really believe that we should do a preemptive strike on anyone who might someday, under some circumstances, attack us? If so, then why don't we invade Germany? I mean, we've already had to fight them twice in the last several decades. What about Japan? We fought them, too. Italy?I hate to break this to you, but there will never be a Western-styled "democracy" in the Middle East. The culture there is far different than our own. Trying to enforce "democracy" on anyone only makes them hate us. I say we should get out and stay out.

[/ QUOTE ]Germany, Italy and Japan are not terrorist-harboring states backing an ideology that says death to all non-Muslims. Iran and Syria are, making them fair game.The colonies that became the US came from a culture ruled by a powerful monarchy, yet we developed a representativeform of government. Do you think Arabs are incapable of that? From about 650AD to 1500AD their civilization was actually more advanced than Europe's was, so to think the Arab people are incapable of representative self-rule is incorrect. The problem is that they have thugs running the show in most of their nations. It will take awhile to change that, but it can be done.We can't stay out of it; it's been brought home to us. Al Qaeda started this, and we'll finish it, and them.

[horns666]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

yes ...everybody who hates and wants to harm the US must die a horrible death...

why not ...who cares ...fudge 'em. [img]/images/graemlins/eviltongue.gif[/img]

everyone over there is gobbling and jumpin' up and down ...that looks ridiculous ...I say kill 'em!!! [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[Emthrax]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

Or we quit helping everybody out. Dammit. It drives me nuts.
Oh help us help us! Send aid... send troops... send whatever... then...
we hate Americans, death to Americans...

Whatfuckingever. [img]/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

In my house if my kids bitch and moan about their dinner, they go hungry that night. I don't see a big difference. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Em

[Deneb]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

I'm a Dem, I bitch, and moan when I'm wrong. I give credit where credit is due, and I'll say something is wrong when something is wrong.

If you've made an EDUCATED choice to vote for your candidate, then great, I, or someone like me did my job. It's to get out and educate the voters.

Issues to me are more than Gay Marriage, or Stem Cell Research. They are NOT issues that I give a damn about. They could both be for them, and I'd still have the same stance.

I'm a card carrying member of the NRA, and the people I work with hate it. Why? Most NRA people are Dems. Let me tell you something about us (Dems) alot of us are hard working individuals. Granted, there are plenty that are fukking wastes hiding behind the shelter of a union representitive. I am all for unions, but sometimes bad workers are taken care of. In my mind, the Union should fight for your rights, wages, benifits..IF YOU WORK. Why should an employer entertain any idea from the union, if the people who work at the place are a bunch of wastes?

We are NOT all educated. Alot of people cannot get the secondary education (colleges and so on and so forth).

Balls? Bill you're saying, you've not found someone (dem) who has balls? Look no further

"I haven't met one Democrat that appeared to have "balls" to me ...none of them ever do....very weasily , nerdy college dweebs with all the degrees without a lick of common sense.

they all look , act and talk like a bunch of limp dicks with pipe dreams of an unrealistic world"

This is quoting you. You say, I(I'm a Dem) look, act and talk like a limp dick, with dreams of an unrealistic world?

So anyone who disagrees with you is a limp dick that has no rational thought?

These dreams would not be unrealistic if some people would own up to being a better human, rather than **** all the people who work on their country side over.

War my ass, the "war" as Bush says, is over. Now we're just "there". Then how in the **** have more people been killed?

If it was up to me, tactical nuke over there, lots of them.

I seem to recall in WWII, when we dropped them on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they were done, right **** quick.

The hell with it, ME for pres. I've got Rep and Dem views, but since I'm a worker, I'm a Dem, make sense? I'm sure if I had the advantages or perks that some rich ass business owner gets, I'd probably be a Rep too!

[PowerTube]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

Laugh if you will, but I honestly believe that the majority of Americans are actually Libertarians, but they just don't know about the party. If our Founding Fathers could come back today, I'll guarantee you that they would be a lot closer to the Libertarian Party than the Dems or Pubs.

As for the war, I don't see how someone can't at least be suspicious that Dubya LIED to get us into it. First it was the al-Queda connection - Nope. Then it was the WMD's - Uh-Uh. Then it was to "liberate" Iraq. After the election is safely behind them, regardless of who wins, we'll be "liberating" Iran next.

In the words of George Washington, "Have trade with all nations, entangling alliances with none."

[nor]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

If I were the ruthless dictator...
...of a third-world nation of 26 million people
...the size of California (largely unpopulated)
...with trillions of dollars in oil money
...had France, Germany, Russia, India, Yemen, the UAE, and Syria watching my back
...was permitted by the world community to play with UN Inspectors like little mice
...was scooping additional billions in kickbacks from anyone who wanted to play the UN's 'Oil For Food' reality show
...had the unwavering support of the world media in exchange for letting them actually report from Iraq
... and had over a decade of time in which to do it


I could hide a couple-dozen warehouses full of WMD so well that 100,000 trained experts wouldn't even get a sniff of them - until about 50-75 years later when they started to bubble-up from under the mosques, schools, and hospitals I would bury them under.

We only have about 1,500 inspectors looking. Believe it or not, there is not some huge labor-pool of qualified out-of-work WMD experts to draw from...

A few dozen WMD shells HAVE been found. One has even been used against US forces in the form of an IED. Which brings us to the question...

What, exactly, is the criteria for 'WMD found!'? 50? 100? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? We know for a fact Saddam would use them, since he did employ them against Iran and against his own people. In order to use WMD, one has to have WMD - right? Ask the soldier who got sick because he was too close to the WMD IED when it went off if there is any WMD in Iraq.

The 2 VX shells found - even in their aged state - if detonated in a busy US train station, football game, concert, or any one of countless other large scale gatherings of US citizens held on almost any given day, would easily kill more US citizens in five minutes than have been lost in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

The fact that we haven't found more doesn't mean that there isn't more. It just means we haven't found more. Anyone who believes there is no WMD in Iraq simply isn't paying attention.
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Just my opinion...

[ejpii]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

[img]/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif[/img]

[PowerTube]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

I guess my real point here is about "preemption." Okay, let's say that Saddam DID have WMD's. So do a lot of other countries. Iraq is a sovereign nation, just as we are. If we're going to trample all over the world, "stamping out evil," do we head to Europe next? Hey, France isn't exactly on the best of terms with us right now. Neither is Germany. I never cared for those Dutch people with their little wooden shoes and don't even get me started on Poland, birthplace of the Polack joke.

Excuse my sarcasm, but I did it to make a point. Let me tell you, I'm as patriotic as anyone, but there's a difference between national defense and international offense. We went into Iraq on some very shaky premises, so what's to stop us from invading another country based on even weaker premises? Think about it. The al-Queda connection didn't pan out. Then the WMD's didn't pan out. Then it became "Operation Iraqi Freedom." Will the current administration learn from this? Probably not. If reelected, who says Bush won't charge in somewhere else based on even less evidence?

Let me tell you, quite a few people who voted for Bush are having regrets.

[Inazone]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

The anti-war crowd wants evidence of WMDs presented on a silver platter. The evidence presented so far has never been "enough" and never will be. How many people would a particular bomb or shell have to be capable of killing to make it justification for a war?

I'm voting for Bush. There is no way I could vote for a Democrat based on the party's social agenda alone, without even mentioning their reprehensible behavior regarding the war in Iraq and a generic anti-Bush platform echoed by every Dem candidate. I oppose welfare in its current state, oppose abortion (except in rape cases), and support the death penalty. No Democrat in his right mind would take "my" side on these issues and hope to survive a week in Washington.

I particularly enjoy it when the anti-war folks use the "just wait until you get drafted" lines on the war supporters. Although I didn't lose any loved ones on 9/11, the disastrous impact to my industry nearly ended my career and those of my closest friends. I said then that if terrosist acts cost me my friends, family or career, I would be at a recruiting office the very next day. I for one would have no hesitation if I were drafted. If you can't fight for your way of life, what ARE you willing to fight for?

[VanOsbourne]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

There is anti-war people, and then there's people like myself who start looking at things and going WTF?
Going to war in Iraq is the same as attacking Belgium for the attack of Pearl Harbor by Japan in WWII. I'm all for kicking ass in Afghaninstan. But we have no reason for giving up ONE american life in Iraq. This war is going to drag on for a long time to come. When its starts to hit home you'll see alot of people change thier tune. I'm not against war. I just dont want to see my fellow soldiers dying for no reason. This should'nt be important to just me. THERE IS NO THREAT FROM IRAQ. Even if they had WMD which I think they probably did. That is no reason for a GROUND WAR. Air strikes would have done the trick.

So somebody tell me why we are there?

[nor]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

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I guess my real point here is about "preemption." Okay, let's say that Saddam DID have WMD's. So do a lot of other countries. Iraq is a sovereign nation, just as we are. If we're going to trample all over the world, "stamping out evil," do we head to Europe next?

[/ QUOTE ] [sigh]
- Are there any European nations currently in violation of 12 UN Resolutions to disarm?
- Or routinely throw out UN Inspectors every-single-time they are about to find something?
- Or invaded three of their neighbors?
- Or actually used WMD against their European neighbors and their own people?
- Are there any European nations shooting at our planes on a weekly basis, when all we are doing is exactly what the UN wanted us to do?
- Are any European nations giving sactuary and free medical care to known and wanted terrorists?
- Are any European nations giving $20,000 rewards to the families of anyone who homicide-bombed Jews or Americans?

If the answer to any of these are 'Yes', please contact the State Department immediately...
[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Your assertion is devoid of any context whatsoever, and completely ignores 12-13 years of global politics. It's not like W. woke up one day and said "Yo, Rummy! Let's go target shootin' for some A-rabs!". Clinton, on over a half-dozen very public occaisions, warned Saddam that if he did not comply with the UN Resolutions - he would do exactly what W. ended up doing. Billy got sidetracked in Bosnia, Haiti, and Somolia - and never quite got around to Iraq. So, when W. took office, the Iraq issue was already at the boiling point, but got put to the back burner AGAIN after 9/11. Afghanistan had to be dealt with.

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We went into Iraq on some very shaky premises, so what's to stop us from invading another country based on even weaker premises?

[/ QUOTE ]See above listing.[ QUOTE ]
The al-Queda connection didn't pan out.

[/ QUOTE ]See above listing. [ QUOTE ]
Then the WMD's didn't pan out.

[/ QUOTE ]See my previous post.

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Then it became "Operation Iraqi Freedom." Will the current administration learn from this?

[/ QUOTE ]I hope so. Killing your enemy before he is ready to start killing you seems a very prudent strategy. Taking out the Talibon prior to 9/11 would have SAVED us 3/4 of a trillion dollars and thousands of innocent lives.

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If reelected, who says Bush won't charge in somewhere else based on even less evidence?

[/ QUOTE ] How much more evidence should be required? I ask this question at lot, and NEVER get a better answer than "Well, more than Bush had...". See, the problem with actually creating a legal list of requirements for War is that our enemies never have one, and will use a battery of laywers and bucketfulls of cash to keep the UN chasing its tail until they are ready to do whatever it is that they plan to do. Perhaps a better way to phrase the question would be "How many US citizens would Saddam have to kill before war is justified?". 1000? 2000? Invading Afghanistan was un-doable prior to 9/11, even though reports were pouring in about Bin Laden. Even though Clinton told Bush that Bin Laden was a serious threat, Bush couldn't act for the same reasons Clinton couldn't act - the United Nothing..err Nations was trying to sweet talk the Taliban into not destroying Buddas....

Still looking for answers....

[Sukisyn]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

Oh no... not the Clinton policy of air strikes... Air strikes accomplished nothing in the eight years Clinton was except to show the the fanatical Islamists what a weak country the US was.

[nor]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

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There is anti-war people, and then there's people like myself who start looking at things and going WTF?
Going to war in Iraq is the same as attacking Belgium for the attack of Pearl Harbor by Japan in WWII.

[/ QUOTE ] No, going to war in Iraq is the same as attacking Japan before Pearl Harbor. [ QUOTE ]
THERE IS NO THREAT FROM IRAQ. Even if they had WMD which I think they probably did. That is no reason for a GROUND WAR.

[/ QUOTE ] Anyone here think Afghanistan was a threat prior to 9/11? Enough of a threat to reverse our stance on Pakistan, launch a massive ground offensive, and obliterate its government? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

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Air strikes would have done the trick.

[/ QUOTE ]Please name one military situation in which air power alone (ie: no boots on the ground before or after) ended a threat. Just one. I can actually think of one - bet you can't. But even that 1 event was against a huge, fixed target. How could airstrikes possibly eliminate a threat when its location is hidden and mobile, and it is distributed in packaging the size of a guitar case? How would you know if the threat was eliminated? Crystal Ball? FedEx from God? Maybe the bad guys could provide you with a detailed analysis of the hit-miss ratio of your precision munitions?

Still looking for answers...

[lerxstcat]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

NOR FOR WAR CHIEF!!! [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/band.gif[/img]

[horns666]

Re: Poll: How are you voting this year?

I say kill 'em..Do to them what we did to the indians ...

take their oil and bathe in it...why not ..

Fuggit! [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]