Studio procedures question - Tuning

[zeegler]

So as some of you may or may not know, my band is recording a demo right now, and I get to play sound engineer.

Well, I've noticed that sometimes certain band members are not in perfect tune, usually on the higher strings. So I say to the guys: "I want to check the intonation on your guitars, and before we lay down any tracks, let ME tune your guitars." Well, the other guitar player gets bent out of shape and claims quite indignantly that he "is definitely in tune".

Am I out of line here?

I want the songs to sound as tight, and as good as possible, and it seems reasonable to me that if one person sets all the guitars up before hand, then they are more likely to be tuned the same way. I should also mention that this guy tunes his bottom string to mine, and then tunes by ear, whereas I use a tuner. What can I say to convince him that we should do it my way? Or am I wrong?

[No Use]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

maybe you should strobe tuner him? i dunno, but i'm thinking you should have him listen to the bad tuning also. i think its a reasonable request to have the guitars checked. plus, if you tunerize him and he ain't in tune, you can bash him for it later!

[Chuckracer]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

Friggen guitar players. I swear, we are our worst enemies sometimes.
If the guitarist who is indignantly "in tune" is tuning from the bottom string up, that's why the upper strings are out of tune with other instruments.
Tune with the tuner. If the guitar is set up right, it will be in tune. However, every player is different and you can pull the tuning way out depending on how the player grabs the strings, where he frets the notes, etc. There is no "One True Way" to set up a guitar, it has to be tweaked for the individule player.
Guitarists are great for setting the intonation on their guitars at the 12th fret and fretting very lightly while doing so, then stand up and throttle the neck when they play. Now they're sharp everywhere and the engineer is telling them to tune up.
I can think of a couple ways to fix this, but first the indignant guitarist has to be able to check his ego at the door and open his ears and mind.

Often there is no other way than to tune the guitar for the chords being used and punching like a madman.

[Ace]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

You are right. As far as convincing him, tell him a professional guitar tech told you how it's done in the multi-platnium studios. Tuning by ear is a great excersize, but NO ONE I know of goes into the studio and tunes by ear. As far as how you should tell him, that's up to you. I don't know him or the chenistry of your band/friendship. You are right, how you tell him is up to you.

[RacerX]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

Tuning by ear is great for those sleazy bar gigs where 20 drunk guys show up, but if you're paying for studio time, tell that asshat to wise up, get with the program (get professional) and listen to Ace.

[mwm70]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

[ QUOTE ]
Friggen guitar players.

[/ QUOTE ]

AMEN TO THAT!!!!!! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Seriously if the guy's ego overrides his desire to make sure the band as a whole sounds good, then maybe it's time to check the want ads for someone who will put the band first. I've heard guitar players who have a great sound individually but you stick them with others and they sound like a$$. A demo can be the introduction of your band to important people and first impressions can be lasting and hard to change if bad.

[tmdiamond]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

I don't know of anyone who tunes by ear when recording. Sometimes I think bands like the Stones and the Beatles did judging by some of their music. I always had someone intonate my guitars before recording and my whole band used the same Korg DTR-1 rack tuner to tune up for recording.

Chuck brings up a really good point....sometimes it is necessary to tune to the chords you will use for each song. It's a big PITA but it makes a difference. My white JEM 7V was always flat when I played leads way up high on the neck. So, when I recorded lead parts on that guitar that would be played above the 12th, I'd have to tune the guitar from the upper octaves instead of from open strings or harmonics. If I played an open G in my "lead tuning", it sounded horribly out of tune.
Tell your guitar player, as diplomatically as possible, that nobody tunes by ear in the studio and that you are simply trying to be another set of ears so that your demo makes him sound as good as possible.

[StukaJU87]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

[ QUOTE ]
Tuning by ear is great for those sleazy bar gigs where 20 drunk guys show up, but if you're paying for studio time, tell that asshat to wise up, get with the program (get professional) and listen to Ace.

[/ QUOTE ] I play plenty of sleazy bar gigs and always use a Korg tuner. Tuning by ear is good for nothing but home practice by yourself.

[markD]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

share a tuner (tuning by ear is a strict NO-NO in the studio!!), and as previously mentioned, tune to the specific chords if needed. i do this all the time in the studio because i will use a different guitar for every track. it's just easier to tune for the chords i am using per song than to screw around with a bunch of guitars with different string gauges, bridges, etc.

[metallicarocks]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

Wait until he goes for coffee and tune it for him.

I usually tune by ear, but I pluck both open strings (like and E and an A) and listen to the wavelengths. Tuninig at the fifth fret can get out of hand because there really is no such thing as perfect intonation on any instrument, unless you're playing a harp.
After tuning by ear, I go over to the strobe tuner to patch up the rest, especially for gigs.

[ChickenScratch]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

[ QUOTE ]
share a tuner (tuning by ear is a strict NO-NO in the studio!!), and as previously mentioned, tune to the specific chords if needed. i do this all the time in the studio because i will use a different guitar for every track. it's just easier to tune for the chords i am using per song than to screw around with a bunch of guitars with different string gauges, bridges, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad you braught this up! Some tuners have a slightly different idea of what's in tune. A $14 Korg is not going to get you where a Peterson is going to so I suggest borrowing a good quality tuner (the studio should have one). I think he'll get with the program then, there's nothing more I love than visiting my bud with the strobe tuner and using it on my guitars.

[zeegler]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

Thanks for the backup guys. Maybe I'll make him read this. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[PowerTube]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

As Metallicarocks said, no instrument has perfect intonation, although I hear that the Buzz Feiten-equipped ones come close. When I record at home, it's not unusual to have to re-tune when going from dirty to clean and vice-versa. For example, the @#$@*&^!! G string, as always, will sound off kilter with the B, even though it was spot on with a different setting on the POD 30 seconds earlier.

[Jim Shine]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

Studios will have instruments tuned and intonated to suit what is being played. Like said above, the chords will even be tuned. The reason we see lots of guitars in a pro studio isn't for show, they each are tweaked for a certain application. It is easier to have extra guitars dedicated for specific parts than to constantly re-adjust one.

[Ace]

Re: Studio procedures question - Tuning

When using a Peterson tuner, you get different tempraments to choose from. Equal temprament isn't always the best. But until you get him to USE A FUCKIN' TUNER, that will be a moot point.