Such a Thing as TOO much gain?!?

[gemini8026]

Im kinda curious, lately Ive been tweaking around with my various guitar modellers. I can get inSANE amounts of gain to the point of pure noise.

But Im curious if lotsa of todays high gain bands are "cranking" their gear or how they get such a powerful sound, without overdoing it. Im aware that studio magic plays a big part, but Im having a slight tone crisis, and I find that when I play stufff back for people, they say it is too "bright" and almost thin, something im guessing the gain is contibuting too. So all you metalheads out there, are your heads cranked and maxxed out, or is there other ways to come across as sounding powerful and intense without sounding like mad noise!

[diablomozart]

Re: Such a Thing as TOO much gain?!?

yes...there can definitely be too much gain...instead of crnking the gain...add some mids to your sound so it will fill out...maybe a slight didgita delay way on background to thicken it up...the studio magic you refer to is achieved by double, triple or quadruple tracking the rhythm guitars for a natural chorus...so you may want to try a little chorus too...just keep the effects subtle and you should be fine...d.m.

[model1]

Re: Such a Thing as TOO much gain?!?

live it´s always the mids or "contour" that make you thicker
and slightly LESS gain IS OFTEN MORE
in studio it´s exactly as DM described
and in studio(live too) you must be aware of who needs which frequencies to get a constant sound
for example
the lows of the guitar mustn´t steal the freqs of the bass
and the highs of the guitar mustn´t steal the freqs of the vox
so what´s left to get through-cutting guitars are the mids
please note that this is a very rough sketch of the sound
the real world is much more detailed and a kind of try and error to find what suits you needs
it depends on varois things, tunig for example, it´s quite hard to stay out of the bass´ freqs when youre tuned at C...
hope that helps a little
andy

[zeegler]

Re: Such a Thing as TOO much gain?!?

Too much gain just makes mush. I have the gain on my Blue Voodoo at about 2 o-clock, and I like LOTS of gain. Turn it up any more, and it's pointless, unusable noise.

[pro-fusion]

Re: Such a Thing as TOO much gain?!?

Growing up as an Iommi fan, I've always been of the "too much gain is a good thing" persuasion... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Interestingly, though, Tony doesn't really use as much gain in his rhythm guitaring as I used to think--as diablomozart said, it's all in the doubling/quadrupling of parts in the studio.

Also, a lot of times people use gain to cover up for some other sound problem, typically a lack of sustain in their rig. I find that using some compression with a lesser amount of gain can make the sound much fuller and the sustain and 'bloom' of notes much stronger without resorting to the gain-mush approach.

[lerxstcat]

Re: Such a Thing as TOO much gain?!?

Most high-gain amps today give you a lot more gain than you need, but with gain comes that noise and loss of articulation. I also have a friend with a studio, and he's shown me that a bit less gain and more mids than I "like" really sound better to tape, and also in a band context. It's often said, but bears repeating, that a guitar sound that's great solo (high gain, scooped mids), will not cut through in a band mix. One thing like about my little VS8040 is that the contour knob can basically take you from solo practice to band jamming, with no other adjustment than backing of from 10 to 8 on the guitar volume. Mic'ed up that l'il monster kicks pretty good ass!

Use compression and delay sparingly though - too much compression will kill all dynamics and too much delay will wash out your sound.
A little of both go a long way, and too much
sort of sucks real bad.

[Madness]

Re: Such a Thing as TOO much gain?!?

The less gain you use - the more defined your guitar parts will sound. Everthing these guys are telling is true!! Don't scoop your mids when recording. If you feel you want to scoop them, You can do this after it's recorded w/EQ. It's always better to cut that to add with EQ.

[paddok]

Re: Such a Thing as TOO much gain?!?

Good advice in this thread. Time to mess around.

[Ace]

Re: Such a Thing as TOO much gain?!?

Want too much gain? Start daisy chaining Metal Zones!!

[gemini8026]

Re: Such a Thing as TOO much gain?!?

yes, i do appreciate the good advice!

I AM recording with no mids, and ill do some tweaking to see if I can sound a little fuller on tape!