Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of death

[sully]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

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Yes, I am against infertility treaments. If someone is not meant to have a child, they shouldn't.

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no prob, just askin.

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Concerning CPR: You don't die the second your heart stops. Where did I say that? So why should it be inconsistent to believe that CPR is ok, while this is not?

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you didn't say anything about cpr; i brought it up because i wanted to know how you felt about other forms of reviving someone. yes, of course, your brain can live for a little bit after your heart stops, but cpr is a form of resuscitation; the first line of it, if you will. it's only inconsistent if you are against all other forms of resuscitation.

are you suggesting that it should end at CPR?

[MBreinin]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

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You are going down a very bumpy road here.......

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No no. You are just trying to twist my words and trying to put them in my mouth. No need for that attitude, unless you are trying to show how big your online penis is. Just cool down, everything will be alright.

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No, not at all..I am just saying that there are issues here that go beyond semantics, and it is difficult to support a position like that. I'm not trying to start a war over it...that's not my style.

My position has always been science over god. It always will be. However, I respect people who have the reverse mindset, it is your choice.

Personally, I think this could have long reaching ramifications and should be investigated more fully.

Mike

[sully]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

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You are going down a very bumpy road here.......

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No no. You are just trying to twist my words and trying to put them in my mouth. No need for that attitude, unless you are trying to show how big your online penis is. Just cool down, everything will be alright.

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no, i don't think he is, i think he's merely extrapolating on your belief system. i sincerely think that he's just asking questions in an open manner, in the same way i am.

religious discussions often get yanked here, reason being that they are very hard to keep civil. i think that's part of what mike is referring to when he mentions a bumpy road.

[veliyasin]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

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are you suggesting that it should end at CPR?

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I think it should.

[sully]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

fair enough.

[toejam]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

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According to my beliefs God is the giver and taker of life. He doesn't interfere directly into the affairs of the world, He doesn't give anyone diseases, just like he doesn't fix lotteries to make a believer win. Funny analogy, but descriptive enough of my beliefs I think.

So trying and improving someone's condition while that person is living is one thing, creating life in laboratory conditions or reviving people is another.

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I find it funny how people say using stem cell and other types of research or abortion is against god, yet these same people can justify using fertility pills and other drugs that are basically science experiments and say it's okay to have babies that way. There were a couple families some years back, the McCoughey (sp?) family comes to mind, and there was that black couple, too. They had like 7 or 8 babies after taking fertility drugs. They only wanted one in the first place. They were told they had a better chance for the babies' survival if they aborted one or two of them... the family argued this is what God gave them and they couldn't do that! Duh, all they wanted was one in the first place and couldn't conceive naturally, so they felt the need to take drugs! Tell me who's playing God now. Did anyone ever stop to think God didn't want them to have kids in the first place if they couldn't do it naturally? No, no one ever thinks of that. Bah, whatever. Rant over! [img]/images/graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

[veliyasin]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

I hope that rant wasn't against me because I made clear that I am against infertility treatments.

[toejam]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

No, it wasn't against you personally. Just a general statement.

[toejam]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

I feel the sudden urge to watch Pet Semetary now. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[veliyasin]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I was about to mention that in the beginning of the thread but all of a sudden it got all serious. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

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According to my beliefs God is the giver and taker of life. He doesn't interfere directly into the affairs of the world, He doesn't give anyone diseases, just like he doesn't fix lotteries to make a believer win.

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Then by definition humans would have no power to prolong life beyond what God intended as he will give and take life when he chooses. Thus, any means humans might seem to have of extending life would truly be within God's will, no?

[veliyasin]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

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Then by definition humans would have no power to prolong life beyond what God intended as he will give and take life when he chooses. Thus, any means humans might seem to have of extending life would truly be within God's will, no?

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I don't see how that relates to my point that only God can end or start life.
Will you actually try to make your own point instead of trying to interpret what I said the way you want or should I just not bother arguing anymore?

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

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Then by definition humans would have no power to prolong life beyond what God intended as he will give and take life when he chooses. Thus, any means humans might seem to have of extending life would truly be within God's will, no?

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I don't see how that relates to my point that only God can end or start life.
Will you actually try to make your own point instead of trying to interpret what I said the way you want or should I just not bother arguing anymore?

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If only God can begin or end life then man has no power to create, extend, or terminate life outside of what God wills. Thus, anything man does that has the effect of creating, extending, or terminating life must therefore have been ordained by God. Just curious Veli, not trying to annoy you. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[sully]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

no one's really arguing, here. i think that we're trying to have an open discussion, and you can't get tone from text.

...or a 5150, but that's a horse of a different color altogether. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

what YAO is saying (from what i gather) is that the advances of scientific medicine happen ultimately because it's god's will. let's use this reviving technique that we're discussing as an example.

let's say that a person dies, and isn't revived by cpr or defibrillation, so the doctor tries this method and it works.

since only god can give or take life, it really mustn't have been that person's time to go yet. kinda creepy b/c without this advance in technology, i'm guessing that person's name is gonna be lazarus jr.

it's been said that god works in mysterious ways. what if god is the one that's given the knowledge and inspiration in those that have pioneered these advances in the medical field? how's that for irony?

imo, by saying that things like resuscitation, infertility treatments, and things like that are humans "playing god," you'd also have to concede that by doing that, humans are playing on the same level as god is, and doing it successfully. kinda ruins the whole ommipotency thing. it's almost saying "you're smarter than what god wants you to be" to those that are doing the research and showing that the science is viable.

that's kinda scary, imo. way scarier than burning bushes and water walks.

[veliyasin]

Re: Bringing dogs back to life after 3 hours of de

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Thus, anything man does that has the effect of creating, extending, or terminating life must therefore have been ordained by God.,

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Why are you still adding extending there though? I made it clear in the posts above that I am not against improving the condition of life. You can't extend life beyond God's will anyways, even if you think you are, it is in his control. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]