Possible Terrorist Attack in London

[veliyasin]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Most of these seem like historical events and not an advocation for commiting violence.

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Wow NEWSFLASH!!! So are the ones in Quran! How many times did you read Quran or the Bible for that matter? There has been times I kept both next to my bed and read them before going to sleep as a good Muslim. Everyone who is that ignorant should just shut up instead of spreading racist messages. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[Badseed]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Dear Mr.Crooks

Please go back and find my statements where i say kill them all.Seriously, where did i say that?I have talked about terrorists, in your mind you must equate that to all muslims, i dont. Not once have i talked about whole goverments.I didt say GOVERNMENTS , i said terrorists.I believe in the war in IRAQ, if you dont, thats your problem not mine.


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I believe in the war, it's pretty much real. Regardless of if I support the war or not, it's all our problems when innocent people from both sides are dying on a daily basis. You didn't say that all Muslims are terrorists, but that tone has certainly been present in this thread.

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And please tell me what an infidel is, because if you believe in any other god other the Allah, you are one.Terrorists call this war a war on the infidels.If they didnt mind us liking jesus do you think they would be doing what they are doing?Please mr crooks, buy a vowel and solve the puzzle for us.


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Mr. Seed, since you asked, the definition of an infidel can be found here.

The Quran builds on the teachings of the Old and New testaments of the Bible. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet sent from God just like Mohammed.

The reason they are doing this, IMO, has nothing to do with "our" Christian beliefs. It has to do with protecting their radical lifestyle and beliefs which Western influence is undermining.

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Mcviegh didnt kill in the name of a religion, islamic terrorists do.Two different subjects IMO.


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Terrorisim is terrorism, the reasons behind it don't matter, do they?

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Please go through my last post and answer some of the tougher questions.
Should Sadaam still be in power, murdering millions?


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I'd like to see your sources that show he was murdering millions. However, I do believe that Iraq is better off without him in power. How he was removed from power is irrelavent at this point.

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Did we deserve 9-11? What did we do to deserve it ?

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I really don't think *I* said that.

However, understanding the reason something happened is not the same thing as excusing it. The US did nothing to deserve the 9-11 attacks. However, our actions may have been the reason for the attack. Does that mean we should change? I don't know, and that's a topic for another discussion.

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Now i can repect you for your opinions.You picked a few lines and made me out to be saying racial or anti-semetic terms whn i wasnt.They are present in this thread, but not by me.As for the mcveigh subject, you jokingly said we should kill all midwesterners since that is where he came from,I never said kill all arabs and muslims, all tho that too has been present in this thread. And i knew that though of jesus as a prophet, but they violently disagree that he was our lord and saviour, right? Atleast thats what i got from what i have read and seen.If im wrong, i dont mind being told so if shown proof that i am.Religion is a personal thing for me and i will never believe in hating someone else if they dont have the same point of view as i do. Good discussion, thanks.

[veliyasin]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Well, part of it certainly is that people who read the Bible know who wrote the various books in it. Muslims believe the Koran was dictated by Allah himself, so no interpretation is necessary; interpretation is heresy, and punishable by death.

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Quran has been interpreted by countless people since it was accumulated into a book more than a millenia ago and there was never organized prosecution of that (in fact it is a whole part of Muslim science), unlike your Inquisition.

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

I read and understood your statement Tim and I had a good idea of what you would follow up with. But if you'll reread what you posted and what I posted you'll note a few differences. Much of what you posted refers to God meting out justice while much of what I posted refers to Allah’s exhortations to his followers to torment / kill Infidels. If there is no God no one has to worry about his smiting them; if there is a God and He chooses to smite someone there’s little that they, or anyone else, can do about it; there are however Muslims so whatever they believe Allah has told them to do is our collective problem whether Allah exists or not. That’s a fundamental difference, particularly when one compares the New Testament (the basis for Christianity) to the Qur’an.

Wake me up to finish the discussion on the moral equivalency of Islam and Christianity when Billy Graham sends his first suicide bomber to Riyadh to blow up a bus full of Saudi schoolchildren.

[hippietim]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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same sort of stuff is in the Bible all over the place. So then the difference is that the Muslims read the Quran but Christians don't read the Bible?

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I think the difference that matters most is that Christians aren't out there killing people in the name of God or asking for holy wars against all muslims.

Pete

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Pete that is EXACTLY how a significant portion of the Muslim community feels about the war in Iraq.

Look at history Pete, Christians have slaughtered countless people in the name of god.

[Badseed]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Most of these seem like historical events and not an advocation for commiting violence.

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Wow NEWSFLASH!!! So are the ones in Quran! How many times did you read Quran or the Bible for that matter? There has been times I kept both next to my bed and read them before going to sleep as a good Muslim. Everyone who is that ignorant should just shut up instead of spreading racist messages. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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I think he was talking about YAO post of the stuff in the q'ran, not the bible.

[txcharvel]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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The Quran builds on the teachings of the Old and New testaments of the Bible. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet sent from God just like Mohammed.


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Islam was created by a charimatic leader named Muhammad (he was also epileptic). In order to bring together a region that was left desolate by the Roman Empire, he started a religion that brought together all the major religions of the region, Judaism, Christianity, and the moon worshipers (who worshiped the moon "goddess", kind of ironic). Muhammad made certain to include the main points in the other three religions. Jesus was to be a prophet like himself, and Abraham was to be the father. I'm not as knowledgeable about the practices of the moon worshipers, but the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon.

Muhammad wanted power and he was certain that everyone in the region would adopt this new system. When the Jews and Christians didn't follow along, they became the focus of his hatred and growing insanity.

This is all easily researched.

Depending on your religeous viewpoint (whatever that may be) the idea of including Jesus and Abraham could potentially take on an entire new meaning.

PM me if you have any questions [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Thanks for posting that YAO, definatley not what i was taught in church. This is the kind of stuff the terrorists have been reading since they were old enough to read, what ehy have been hearing since birth.Its no wonder why they do it.

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The same sort of stuff is in the Bible all over the place. So then the difference is that the Muslims read the Quran but Christians don't read the Bible?

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That's a good point and probably a very accurate one.

[veliyasin]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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I think he was talking about YAO post of the stuff in the q'ran, not the bible.

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I bet. That's why he thinks Mecca should be bombed because he "still remembers 9/11".

[442w30]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

Not to make light of this situation, but you know what really upsets me about this?
I know people are animals since Oklahoma and Sept 11.

I think that I was on my work and never felt anything inside me until I heard about this on the radio, just like Sept 11.

In Star Wars, there is 'The force' -Obi and the boys could feel a disturbance when something happened like a planet exploding. Me, clueless when tragedies occur. Only when a news agency tells us there was a tragedy do we know.

I wish there was a 'force' that would help us feel each other's plight or happiness, like we are one big organism, but we just arent. The best we can do is build a bionic infrastructure of communication to 'feel' the pain or excitement as quick as possible (The Internet?).

When all of this is done for religion and there is no immediate hand from the sky correcting it, makes you kind of lose faith - no miracles today that aren't scientifically explained. Why are we not special enough to get a bonafide miracle now? Why do people have to suffer?

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Calling someone a raghead because they wear a turbin is racist.

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It's not racist because what one chooses to wear on one's head is not an unmodifiable identifier of one's race. What it is however, is asinine.

[sully]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

i think it's horrible what happened in london. man's capacity for inumanity toward their fellow man is a very sad thing.

that said, it's also very sad that the membership here can't seem to discuss this kinda thing without slinging insults, spewing policitcal and religious crap, and just in general, being dicks. way to go.

sully

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Agreed. But because a minority interprets it this way, doesn't mean that the religion as a whole is bad.

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Matt, please reread this thread and point to the place where I said the whole of Islam was bad.

[atomic charvel guy]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

i haven't read this whole thread, but i lost 3 people on 9/11 in new york, and i hope the slurpee slinging sand cats who are responsible die the slowest most agonizing death there is on this planet. it's a touchy subject with me. hang tough london, be aware as well.

[txcharvel]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

Sully, I love you brother, but I don't think the conversation is all that heated. All the accusations have been implied and are pretty much in line with what society thinks.

I would still trust anyone in this thread doing a guitar deal on just because we are all JCF brothers. As a matter of fact, I would probably trust quite a few people here more than my neighbor down the street. We can disagree and have different religeous beliefs. But I'm certain we all love guitars, Randy Rhoads, and apple pie (at least some sort of pie) [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]