Possible Terrorist Attack in London

[donf]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

Ok......what madrassa? [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

[SeventhSon]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

I am one with my fellow JCF'ers when wanting to find al-Qaida and annihilate them. I am not one with my fellow JCF'ers in advocating genocide against Arabs. That's just plain ignorant.

Do you consider Bush a traitor for holding hands with the Saudi king? Or creating energy policies that directly create massive profits for the Saudi companies, whose owners, in turn, fund al-Qaida? Remember, 11 of the 12 terrorists on 9/11 were Saudi nationals (my numbers may be off by 1 or 2).

Most people who didn't vote for Bush (please don't call us liberals) advocate seriously re-evaluating our relationship with the Saudi government. Of course that wouldn't fly with the majority of SUV-driving soccer moms. Or the majority of Bush's cabinet who's wealth is directly related to strong relationship with the Saudi government.

"Support Osama bin Laden...drive an SUV" (of course this is tongue-in-cheek, but the money trail is clear).

[MBreinin]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

Fortunately or unfortunatately, depending on your views on these wars, this also couldn't have come at a better time for our current administration....which has been wallowing in the public's resentment over the war for quite some time. The terrorists only accomplished one thing today, they probably inspired a renewed enthusiasm for warfare against their people. I can foresee an even larger level of British participation after this as well as renewed support in the U.S.

What really scares me is the recent upsurge of activity in Afghanistan. We are going to be facing a fully realized two front war here pretty soon. Those are very difficult to fight as history has shown. The radical muslims we are fighting in the Middle East are no less dedicated to their cause than the Soviet Union in WWII.

Mike

[GodOfRhythm]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Institutionalized (although it's less 'clear' in Islam) forms of religious to keep the people in the dark and to seize all power.

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Yup, I see your point there.

But everyone who thinks that Christianity is a "real" religion while Islam is man-made is clearly out of touch with reality. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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All too true. I personally think that's the case with any religion, I'm talking about religion in the sense of a true deity/god worshipping transcendent religion here (so Buddhism and other earthly, humane focused religions do not count here). I have great mistrust for religion, true the Church does some good things, but I still see it as a remnance of a struggle for power in medieval time, a remnance with an eerily amount of power and nearly limitless resources.

I've targeted the Church in that specific paragraph, but this is the case in ALL matters of transcendent religion allbeit more modern than medieval times, regardless of their source, they all turn into an affair of power and wealth rather sooner than later.


I did a thesis on Religious Fundamentalism, and I focused on Islamic Fundamentalism and Extremism, since it was such a controversial and lively subject. And I'll tell you this, you won't even come close to approaching the real reasons of this war/problem/lifestyle and everything around it by discussing it or fighting over it on a message board on the internet. This is the most complex problem I've ever witnessed, in fact, by designating it a 'problem' I've already made myself incredible. That's the sensivity of the subject at hand, people. And unless you don't want to look as shallow (ignorant?) hypocrites, I suppose we lay this subject to rest and start talking about better more lucrative things, which actually are debatable, at least.

And now to the focus of the thread: All the british people and all people in London who were affected by this tragedy are in my thoughts.

[charvelguy]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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and you don't think al-Qaida is warping Islam?

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yes, I do...on the whole or in part, but just as Hitler mislead millions to kill millions as well as his own people... Osama is misleading a potential possiblility of millions to do the same against Christians and Jews.
There are fundementalists and radicals willing to distort thier own values and faith for another system just because of their hatred for another way invading theirs.

[txcharvel]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

If the left would allow us to drill for oil in the Alaskan wilderness, we wouldn't be so dependent on Saudi Arabia. I use to work in the oil field as a drilling fluid engineer. It can be done without adverse effect on the environment and there is a lot of oil there.

Like it or not, our entire world economy is driven by oil. We produce goods using oil for energy and materials. We transport the goods using fuel from oil...you see where this is headed.

Once things settle down in Iraq, I would expect quite a different relationship with the Saudis.

[SeventhSon]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

shall we judge all Christians by pedophile priests, KKK, white supremecists, branch davidians, jim jones, hitler, crusaders, btk serial killer, ad nauseum?

The desire by members here to judge all muslims by what al-qaida does is lame in my opinion.

[hammer84]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Look at history Pete, Christians have slaughtered countless people in the name of god.

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That is what happens when the wrong people gain power and influence.

Now they have see the wrong and have stopped. What about the 'other' side ?????

[SeventhSon]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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If the left would allow us to drill for oil in the Alaskan wilderness, we wouldn't be so dependent on Saudi Arabia. I use to work in the oil field as a drilling fluid engineer. It can be done without adverse effect on the environment and there is a lot of oil there.

Like it or not, our entire world economy is driven by oil. We produce goods using oil for energy and materials. We transport the goods using fuel from oil...you see where this is headed.

Once things settle down in Iraq, I would expect quite a different relationship with the Saudis.

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I see one thing. I see a lack of balls in requiring minimum fuel efficiency requirements on vehicles because it would cut into today's profits for oil and automobile executives.

I don't care if we drill in Alaska or not. The fact of the matter is that our president and his cabinet are FUCKING hypocrites with dealing with the Saudi's. They will continue to support policies that indirectly fund al-Qaida because they want themselves and their friends and their donors to stay rich.

Why more people are not outraged with our president holding hands with the saudi king, when 11/12 of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi's, frankly shocks me.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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I agree with Sully that we ought not bring race, religion or politics into this.

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Race I agree with 100% but terrorism is, by definition, political in nature so there's no avoiding that and when the act is claimed by a religious terrorist organization there's largely no avoiding that either. To discuss this sort of event while sweeping those factors under the rug is to not discuss the event at all.

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now there's an idea [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I know right from wrong and have no need to discuss politics and religion , its as simple as that. Reasoning is pointless with these people. I don't care why, how, what you do... wrong is wrong...case close. There is no justification to terrorism, whether it be religion or political. It is cowardism (I'm pullin a Don king and making up my own word) plain and simple...

I'm outta this thread [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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same sort of stuff is in the Bible all over the place. So then the difference is that the Muslims read the Quran but Christians don't read the Bible?

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I think the difference that matters most is that Christians aren't out there killing people in the name of God or asking for holy wars against all muslims.

Pete

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Pete that is EXACTLY how a significant portion of the Muslim community feels about the war in Iraq.

Look at history Pete, Christians have slaughtered countless people in the name of god.

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Past tense. I'm more worried about what's happening right now than hundreds of years ago. YAO's Billy Graham and schoolkids blowing up a Saudi bus is a pretty good comparison.

Pete

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That's the point dude - there are many people that view our presence in Iraq as just that. That would be present tense.

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This is a big part of the problem IMHO: we're always expected to view things from the perspective of everyone else on the planet and understand how they feel and think but no one is ever required to consider western sensibilities or to understand how we perceive issues. or, alternatively, if one does by chance consider a western perspective it is automatically dismissed as invalid, uninformed, or otherwise flawed because it does not agree with the superior non-western perspective. Neat circle that.

[SeventhSon]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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same sort of stuff is in the Bible all over the place. So then the difference is that the Muslims read the Quran but Christians don't read the Bible?

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I think the difference that matters most is that Christians aren't out there killing people in the name of God or asking for holy wars against all muslims.

Pete

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Pete that is EXACTLY how a significant portion of the Muslim community feels about the war in Iraq.

Look at history Pete, Christians have slaughtered countless people in the name of god.

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Past tense. I'm more worried about what's happening right now than hundreds of years ago. YAO's Billy Graham and schoolkids blowing up a Saudi bus is a pretty good comparison.

Pete

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That's the point dude - there are many people that view our presence in Iraq as just that. That would be present tense.

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This is a big part of the problem IMHO: we're always expected to view things from the perspective of everyone else on the planet and understand how they feel and think but no one is ever required to consider western sensibilities or to understand how we perceive issues. or, alternatively, if one does by chance consider a western perspective it is automatically dismissed as invalid, uninformed, or otherwise flawed because it does not agree with the superior non-western perspective. Neat circle that.

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Nice generalization. However, you haven't answered the question. Do you agree with Pete's statement that a radical offshoot of Islam terrorizing/killing innocents is any different from a radical offshoot of Christianity terrorizing/killing innocents?

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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same sort of stuff is in the Bible all over the place. So then the difference is that the Muslims read the Quran but Christians don't read the Bible?

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I think the difference that matters most is that Christians aren't out there killing people in the name of God or asking for holy wars against all muslims.

Pete

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Pete that is EXACTLY how a significant portion of the Muslim community feels about the war in Iraq.

Look at history Pete, Christians have slaughtered countless people in the name of god.

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Past tense. I'm more worried about what's happening right now than hundreds of years ago. YAO's Billy Graham and schoolkids blowing up a Saudi bus is a pretty good comparison.

Pete

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That's the point dude - there are many people that view our presence in Iraq as just that. That would be present tense.

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This is a big part of the problem IMHO: we're always expected to view things from the perspective of everyone else on the planet and understand how they feel and think but no one is ever required to consider western sensibilities or to understand how we perceive issues. or, alternatively, if one does by chance consider a western perspective it is automatically dismissed as invalid, uninformed, or otherwise flawed because it does not agree with the superior non-western perspective. Neat circle that.

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Nice generalization. However, you haven't answered the question. Do you agree with Pete's statement that a radical offshoot of Islam terrorizing/killing innocents is any different from a radical offshoot of Christianity terrorizing/killing innocents?

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No, it's precisely the same. A better question is whether we will wait patiently for the Islamic Hitler to rise and slaughter tens of millions of Jews and Christians or whether we will require the societies that breed these vermin deal with the societal issues that produce them before we reach that point.

[SeventhSon]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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I think the difference that matters most is that Christians aren't out there killing people in the name of God or asking for holy wars against all muslims.


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Sure there are. They're called the JCF! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[SeventhSon]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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No, it's precisely the same. A better question is whether we will wait patiently for the Islamic Hitler to rise and slaughter tens of millions of Jews and Christians or whether we will require the societies that breed these vermin deal with the societal issues that produce them before we reach that point.

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I'm all for dismantling the Saudi government (11/12 of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi). Trouble is Bush likes to hold hands with the Saudi king.